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Legally, it’s a bust.
At the polygraph last night there were some glitches. The examiner said he would have to say he gave H a “pass”, he has not had “sexual contact” with anyone but me since we’ve been married. But on that question there were reactions twice, then the examiner moved it to a different place in the line up and then it came out normal. The examiner said it was because it was the first question and sometimes people had a small reaction to that, which it wasn’t, they asked all those baseline questions: Are you using your real name, do you intend to answer truthfully, is it Wednesday, etc. and then the “Have you had sexual contact with anyone other than your wife since you’ve been married”. The examiner said there was a slight reaction to that question the first two times, but not enough that he could conclusively call it a lie so it wasn’t classified as a “deceptive” reaction.
I asked if, when he changed the lineup there was a similar reaction to what then became the first question. The examiner said “No, but because H knew that question was the most important one, AND it was first, that there was such a reaction and I am not surprised that the other question didn’t get the same reaction when moved up to first.” Geez. If you get all worked up about having to answer the question, isn’t that what shows you are stressed about it because you’re LYING? What’s it gonna take? So they redid it the third time, and they both smiled and said “CLEAN”. What a crock.
H is mad this morning because I said I don’t believe it. He’s furious that he wasted $450 when I said, according to him, said that if he did that we could start all over with a clean slate. That just struck me speechless for a few moments. WHO could start over with a clean slate after what I know? I told him I never said that but he danced around the kitchen like a child saying “yes you did, yes you did, yes you did”. He said “It’s on paper, documented by a professional, I was faithful to you. You just refuse to believe it.”
I just said, “Well you guys can just frame that. Do you think I WANT to be in this position? Having to take polygraphs? If you hadn’t shown that you are perfectly comfortable lying through your teeth to me, and intended to live our whole lives like that, we wouldn’t even have been AT the polygraph examiners. Remember, you did NOT come clean and share and say YOU wanted to start all over with a clean slate. Even when I found out what you were doing, you lied about it. Even when I had the evidence.” That shut him up. I just told him to go to work, and he stomped out and slammed the door.
At the counselors last night, I told her that no matter what, I knew I’d never trust him. But I was so disappointed that there was no evidence for court. Now I’m back to what the attny said, watch and wait for the evidence. The counselor said I was too shocked, and depleted to make any choices, again.
So taking it one day at a time. Again.
Oh, and I didn’t say that until this morning, because I wasn’t speaking to H afterwards or last night.
And when I did, H brought his phone up to me, and held it up to my ear. “Got something I want you to listen to.” It was the examiner, he said he called because he was concerned I may have some reservations. It was a recorded voice message from the examiner that I should be assured that he did not mean there were “problems” with that question, just “reactions” which were not the same thing.
I just wondered, the polygraph examiner has my number. If he had a concern to address with me, why didn’t he call ME? It was way too clean, and polished. Oh, you have questions, well I have answers. WAY too convenient. Staged almost. Made me wonder if my H paid the examiner to make that recording while he was there, because I never heard H’s phone ring at all, and I am super sensitive to THAT sound now.
I am so paranoid, but it was just creepy.
Well, Lynn,
Creepy doesn’t begin to describe it.
I agree, that phone message is very very odd. It’s too much. And made to the wrong person.My only suggestion is that if you intend to stay and try and get evidence, you have got to stop fighting him. You will need to let him relax and be off his guard. And maybe you need a Private Investigator. Perhaps you need to give the impression that you’ve “given up” the battle. People who lie and deceive don’t stop doing it. They have to do it. Once I had a husband and wife in my church who told terrible lies about me. It was really hard, but I had got a process of inquiry into their “complaint” going and I kept it going for a few months. I knew that, eventually, they would start lying about something because that’s what they do, only this time they would be lying to other people in the inquiry, and possible lying about them. It worked. As soon as the people running the inquiry got a taste of how these people lied about them, well, I was in the clear. People who lie, can’t stop lying that easily. Act like you aren’t ready to reconcile but are taking time to process this whole turn of events. “you need time to be ready to reconcile”. He will eventually act out. It’s just a matter of time.
Aside from all the awfulness, I’m glad you are in one piece and still sharing with us. No one knows what is ahead, we can only do our best in each moment. I think you’ve been doing that all along. I wish I could help you get out of the mess. We all do. But we’re still here and we’re not going anywhere.
One of my favorite new hymns from South America by Miguel Manzano & J.A. Oliver begins this way:
When the poor ones who have nothing share with strangers
When the thirsty—-water give unto us all
When the crippled in their weakness strengthen others
Then we know that God still goes that road with us.God still goes this road with us.
Dear Lynng
I agree with the above. The creepy phone call, the reaction being labled a non reaction. The only polygraph I actually trust is now my gut, my own intuition. It never fails. 99.9% of the time, when you smell a rat, there is one.
I know you must feel disappointed. But we always have choices. With or without evidence. I too want to gather on camera proof of H’s “episodes”. So that he said she said cannot be argued. But sometimes Lynn, I feel like I am just willing to take my chances. If I leave with nothing, I leave with nothing. At least living with addiction will not be present. And while they may make our life difficult for awhile, they can only go so far.
I really liked Diane’s advice about letting him relax. YOu can take comfort in knowing that SA never lies dormant for long. And while we don’t know the future, we can wisely play along. He wants a clean slate? say ok. here’s a clean slate. And then he will begin to dirty it all over again. It is inevitable. Liars will lie. Addicts will act out.Polygraph examiner called me. Seems he’s 100% convinced H is truthful and even has complete desire to come clean and make things work out. sigh
Are you CERTAIN this examiner is not in cahoots with your H therapist?? Nothing about any of this sounds even remotely clean. I knew this was going to end up EXACTLY like this….inconclusive. That must have been my gut 🙁
I hope you are ok Lynn. I don’t know what else to say except don’t drop your guard. sighlynn karen may have something there something just does not sit right. from the get go the way they handled the questions and not informing you about the way this whole thing will work. who or how was this whole poly arranged. have you spoken to any other woman that have used these people. try googling the name of the guy who did it. just seems like the whole thing was a farce. just my opinion
I did google him, and he is legit. The group my H’s counselor is in is pretty big, in Charlotte, with 7 counselors, 3 CSATs. They all use him.
Yeah, I had those feelings when the counselor didn’t call me about making the questions. I checked it out. I STILL feel weird about the situation. But then, I suppose I give H too much credit, too, in turning situations to his benefit.
This examiner sounded really distressed that I was not satisfied with the conclusion. He offered to set up another test and I declined. Told him I wasn’t going through that again.
Lynn, sorry you had to endure the additional trauma of the polygraph, truly hard to believe he ‘passed’. I imagine he’s feeling all vindicated and full of himself – and you are showing extreme self-restraint by not throttling him. Good advice from the sisters, give him enough rope and he’ll hang himself. Save YOU the trouble of strangling him.
I am surprised that you did not get to review the questions that would be asked?
It would make sense that you should have input. did you even get a list of the questions. Would love to know what they were.Yes, I wrote the questions. Then the examiner went over and edited them with us both, before the test. I had 11, which I knew was too much. The examiner helped me choose which were most crucial and most alike so that the test would be most efficient. The first one was “Have you had sexual relations with anyone except your wife since Oct 16, 2010 (our wedding date).” That’s the one he had reaction to. Go figure, right? But the examiner is adamant that it’s not a deceptive reaction, just a nervous one because it was the first “important” question. WTF? I still don’t buy that one, but told them I would have to defer to the examiners knowledge of his equipment and years of experience. Nice diplomatic way to end the thing, right? They were trying like crazy to get me to say I was okay with the “pass” when I obviously wasn’t. I was about to throw up with the smiles on my H’s face like he’d won the lottery or something. It was just obscene to me, talking those terms about our sex life in front of a total stranger who was so completely comfortabe with it all. Just plain freakish. This whole experience has been for me.
The others dealt with sexual activity with minors, has he ever drugged me and had sex with me without my knowledge (a great fear of mine), any incestuous relationships with the children (you can imagine my mind always goes there if I’m out), and has he had a relationship of a romantic nature with the woman from work he “forgot’ to tell me he spent the day alone with last Tuesday (at my attny’s request, a yes to this would have been my ticket out.)
I will get a written report, and then will know the exact wording. My mom said the fact that H would go through with the polygraph, has been in counseling, has been to support group, and put himself on national TV admiting what he is should be enough to know he’s sincere in wanting to make a change. I still have doubts. Guess I always will. Sigh.
I just want to add she knew in her gut-thought she was crazy-when he truly got into recovery-he told her-relief for her but more trauma to sift thru
Gawd….how do you ever trust after THAT?? Sigh…. Sometimes I wonder how we ever trust after ANY of it! 🙁
Helen – sounds like we have the same “friend’ – the one who paid off the polygraph guy. I was in LA with her. Amazing story and just goes to show what SAs will do to hide their behavior.
I sure would like to hear these pay-off stories. Especially since my SA will be taking another poly next Tuesday.
Polygraphs aren’t respected that much any longer, (mostly from experience with criminals). They are typically easy to pass for those that have well developed narcissistic characteristics. aka many of our SAs.
Depending on what your attorney thinks…might want to see if you can force a mental health assessment.
The bad thing (cost-wise) with establishing infidelity/disorders (involuntarily), is that both take a lot of time.
If your H is tipped off, he’s covering his tracks, guaranteed.But as an aside, in my mid-size TN city, the judges are way over hearing about infidelity (alone), are not shocked by it, and don’t base awards on fault. To save yourself some cost, ask your atty what the benefits of establishing it would be.
If I were in your shoes, I’d want to smash his face in the shame publicly, all day long, but I wouldn’t want you to be disappointed, on the flip side.
You know the reality, regardless if the court does. I know we all wish there was a ‘credit report’ for men out there, BAD.
bonnieb246-Steve has never been unfaithful with affairs, prostitutes, chat rooms, cyber sex, etc. His problem was d/s porn with 650# women, but as far as I know that hasn’t been a problem since a year ago August.
His problems are fantasies of above and objectifying/sexualizing women-objectified his daughter and maybe sister. I know that sounds minor comparred to others, but it has destroyed the marriage because of lieing, deception and the inability to get into me intimately. Also anger problems with the BPD.
I could supoena records from his 1st therapist and now the 2nd, but I doubt anything would fly in court except mental anguish. A mental health assessent would reveal nothing more than a Sexual Addiction and BPD. This man is totally functional, intelligent, and held a very responsbile position as a Data Base Administrator until retirement a yr. ago.March – the payoff for me was nothing with the polygraph. I think I told everyone he beat it, and was lieing through his teeth. He has continued to do so this entire marriage.
Your husband either does not feel guilty about his behavior or believes his lies.I am reading that book “Stop walking on eggshells” I was quite surprised to find that the criterion for BPD involves impulsivity with at least 2 substances or sex, spending ect. I also didn’t know much about high functioning borderlines. I am now looking at my husband and going Hmmmm? I always thought all borderlines had mood all over the place and were very erractic in that way. This book explains that they don’t all act in the same way….much like you can have a quiet narc. I am finding it very interesting and I can see that my husband has plenty of other charcateristics that they describe. I have never believed he was a SA…whatever that is. I think there are ways to beat a polygraph but I also think average Joe on the street just isn’t used to taking the chance? Some fess up before but lets face it…some of these men are delusional and they probably do believe their own lies. If I could change anything about SA tretament besides the abomination it is to partners ….it would that every single one of these dudes would have to be assessed for a full spectrum of personality disorders AND done in a way that they have no idea what they are being tested for, at the very beginning of all this BS. I really think many partners would walk much quicker if they thought he was NPD instead of “he has an addiction “. Even though P/D’s are mental health disorders, their prognosis is so poor many wives would just give up. Lets face it…the ‘HOPE” that is offered to partners by SA treatment is that she will be given back a loving, faithful version of her husband…the guy she dated or even the guy she thought he was until she found out he wasn’t? If she were offered instead a minimallly modified person with a mental health disorder and a penchant for illicit sex….well…I just really believe that most would take back their own lives much quicker
Great point KMF! At ISH (Dr. Minwalla’s place) the FIRST thing they do is the MMPI to assess any personality and other mental health issues. I really liked that idea. A CSAT that saw my husband told him that he either is an SA or has a personality disorder. Of course, my hubby never went back to him because the next time he saw him on his own he SWEARS that he told him that he’s not an SA. The joy ride continues.
Deb
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