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I posted this under Deb’s safely list topic, but I think it’s important. I want it to be clear that the idea of “powerlessness” is not a way to let the addict off the hook.
Hey all, I just want to add my two cents about the ‘powerlessness’ thing: Like Claire, I’m a recovering alcoholic, with 7 years of sobriety. I’m also recovering from every eating disorder known to man (recovery 20+ years). I tried countless times to quit everything on my own. If it were simply a matter of willpower…well, I don’t know many people who have more of that than I do. It wasn’t until I surrendered–realized that I was indeed powerless over food….alcohol…that the addictions were stronger than I was….that no matter how many deals and negotiations I made with them to control them, I couldn’t. Who/what did I surrender them to? I didn’t even know at the time. All I knew was that I was beaten. And I gave up. I gave THEM up. It didn’t mean that I was powerless in my life. It didn’t mean that I was not responsible for the choices I made and would make. It just meant that I had no power over those things–and that I had to sever my relationships with them. I had to accept that I would never be able to drink or eat the way “normal” people can. As a result of that realization, I’ve been able to find where my true power/s lie. Without those things in my life (drinking, binging, purging, starving), I am a powerful woman. With them, I’m a servant, a slave to those substances and behaviors.
Thanks for sharing this March. It really explained the concept to me from a real point of view. I couldn’t help but think as I was reading it thinking we are ‘powerless’ over some of the toxic people in our lives (I was thinking of my malignant narcissistic mother). I know she is never going to change no matter what I do, so to give up and let go, frees me to live my life.
Thank you so much March for your openness. I am so impressed with your strength and courage in overcoming such horrible obstacles. And I appreciate you defining what the true meaning of ‘powerless’ is.
I completely agree.
Unfortunately the opportunistic and manipulative nature of most Sex Addicts gives them license to interpret ‘powerless’ in another way. I speak from personal experience with Larry and from hearing stories both from Sex Addicts and their partners.
Most Sex Addicts interpret powerless with non accountability. They seize on this ‘out’. They insist that they have absolutely no control over their actions, so, therefore, are not responsible.
For example, two years ago when Larry chose to engage in the risky behavior of surfing for actresses photos and viewing soft porn he swore that it was not a ‘choice’, that he was an addict, and therefore did not have any choice.
Well, that bullshit didn’t fly and I really don’t care what his distorted thinking says, his computer keyboard is not a Ouija Board and does not move on it’s own.
I do believe that your interpretation of powerless is what the 12 Step program intended, but many addicts grab the opportunity to use it as a shield for their bad behaviors.
I guess it’s up to us to not allow that sort of irrational manipulation and arrogance to cloud our rational thinking.
March you are a very strong woman, but you are very wise, and insightful woman, you had the gift of being able to look beyond those temptations and see the great human you are with beautiful soul, mind and many great deeds. All humans are great, we are gifts of creations, but only if we are coming from the source of light, i.e. love, compassion, wisdom, observation, giving, etc.
The sex addicts are piece of dirt, smelly, ugly, and full of germs and if you touch them they make your hands and heart dirty and spread their germs to you, but that dirt is hidden so well deep inside, they had put on it so many layers of charms that it was impossible for any one of us to see it over many years of living so close to them and sleeping with them in the same bed, but even when we discovered it was almost impossible to comprehend it. They have done all of that intentionally, there was no powerlessness in that matter, they want to fuck many women, they want to watch porn, they want to explore other sex venues, because it supplies them with power, but twisted sick type of power, but they also want to have the nice house, the trophy wife, and the children to have the full package in their sick mind, oh they have the power and they are the masters of sucking powers they are just like vampires, they can not reach to their own sources of power but they have to suck power from other women through sex and they sucked so much power over the years, they are now power house, but again it is the dark power house they have, and they know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it, and they enjoy it to the end ( my H told me once that after one of his fucking session with this woman he had a long affair with, was driving home and thinking to himself wow how great he has it, a mistress, and a beautiful house with beautiful wife and children, but how long could that last, he thought to himself it was so good to last for long but it actually did last for long for years, he managed to deceive me for so many years, he managed to fool everyone around that he is the devoted loving father, but I really think it made him feel more the power that he was able to have the two sides of this sick life) after I kicked him out of the house his mantra was please help me to get over this, I need you I cannot be alone, my response was that you got yourself into it and enjoyed it for so many years, when you made me miserable for all those years by being mean selfish, sob, i have no power left to help you you get yourself out of it that if you even want to do that as I doubt that you want to get out of this twisted sex that you enjoyed for so many years with these women. but yet I have to admit I did not cut him off completely I was still seeing him over the last one year, but now (only a week ago) I told him get yourself clean away from me away from my house and when and if you are ever clean of all the lies, manipulation, sickness, needs to have power over women through sex, if you ever clean of all of that ( which I doubt very much that he will ever be, because he loves it) then and only then can come back to this beautiful clean house.
See the difference between sex addiction ( if we even should call that) and other addictions like addictions to alcohol, drugs, etc, that in the later situations people who are addicted they struggle with their consciousness that these stuff is so bad for them, the society look down at them they can get arrested for doing alcohol and drugs, they can be thrown in jail, so it is hurting them and it is hurting their families and they need to get over it but yet they can not and that is where the powerlessness comes but in the case of sex addiction, they love it they enjoy it, it is great life style for them, it gives them power, they don’t think it is bad for them, they don’t care if it is hurting their wives and they don’t think it will hurt their children, and as far as society actually I think society, male society look up to them, they never get arrested for any kind of fucking they do, they never get thrown in jail for ruining their wives and children lives, the policemen and lawmakers look at them as they are omnipotent with strong penises they dream to have one like that too, with all this power and ability to seduce and fuck so many women, I think those lawmakers are part of the same sick power games, or maybe they are jealous of those men, so it is great life, great power, and they dont have any consiousness so they will never give it up, they want it and that this is a very important way for them to feel power in their lives especially if they are also able to keep the wife next to them, selling her the story of sex addiction and powerlessness and why they need them next to them, just another way of manipulation that gives them more power.JoAnn, SA’s don’t have license to interpret ‘powerlessness’ any other way than it was intended, but they may (mis)interpret it to their advantage anyway, and I’ve certainly seen it happen. I might say my regular class c driver’s license gives me permission to drive an 18-wheeler, but that doesn’t make it so. Any SA (or addict in general) who maintains that ‘powerlessness’ means he has no choice or accountability is NOT in recovery. So, yes, as you said, it is up to us not to allow their manipulations to cloud our judgment. Sometimes, I think, it’s easier for us to forget how much smarter and “righter” than they we are. It lets US off the hook.
Like harmony, I think involvement of the penis in this addiction changes the whole thing. The penis is linked directly to the strongest pleasure source, and men’s sense of well being, power, virility, self-image etc. Other addictions do not have the same connections with the same intensity. In my mind, these things are why the 12 step is not framed appropriately for this addiction. Smoking, alcohol, drugs, etc can destroy someone’s life, relationships and health, but they can’t provide the more desirable links with anything close to the same intensity as sex addiction. Society, by affirming these links with sexuality in its advertising and entertainment industries, for example, escalates those dynamics beyond anything related to alchohol, drugs and smoking. IN fact, those three turned to sexuality to increase marketing power and effectiveness.
JUst my thoughts,
Diane.i just wanted to add that part of being strong, is knowing your weaknesses. If someone has a weakness for alcohol, smoking, etc. — changing your relationship with those things is the first part of healthy living.
that being said, perhaps some of us here, have a weakness for badly behaving men. Or a weakness in accepting poor treatment in the name of “staying in the relationship.”
We too, need to change our relationships to those people. whatever that might be. just a thought.
Hi All and JoAnn – I love what you say about boundaries! My boundaries have changed considerably for Steve. It used to be that I could live with slips if he was always honest and discloses as he should.
Now my boundaries are I will not tolerate any slips (Not even one) or relapses from him. I am at zero tolerance! Told him he has gained enough awareness about his addiction over the past 3 yrs, and now these things are a counscious choice- He can either decide to continue his miserable life or choose his wife over his addiction. Am I setting him up for failure – probably. I just don’t really give a shit anymore. I will not live the rest of my life on pins and needles with constant worry about whether he is going to objectify or have his sick fantasies and mb to them. HIS CHOICE. The revision of the post nump is in the making, and the Divorce papers will be made up and ready to go.
SharronDiane, you have articulated what I want to say very well, yes those men ( who I really think we should give them another name rather than addicts, like the immoral, the abusers or even the malignant evil ones) can not easily and will not give up that great life style they had, all those pleasures and joys they derive from sex, that is why after our discoveries of their secret lives they continue to do what they do but they just get better at hiding it and manipulating us, so I don’t believe for a moment that those men feel any anguish over what they have done or the horrible pain they had caused us and the destruction of our family structure ( but we are the ones who end up suffering severe emotional pain we lose our sleep we lose ourselves and we are the ones who end up on antidepressant and anxiety pills not them), they only feel stressed out because they were discovered and they can not handle our reactions, so they have to put more efforts into manipulating us, by being loving and remorseful in the beginning but just long enough until we forgive and then forget and move on and they will be back to their screwing, so if you let them off the hook quickly they will be back to their fucking games quickly, if you push them into the corners for longer time they will stay their for longer time but you can not corner them for ever you have other things to do your self and once you get back to your normal life and routine, they will be back to their addiction, sex games, manipulation, and get much better at it, they just become masters at those games, and so the merry round goes,
The society somehow plays along those games too along with them and support them with the use of sex for manipulation and marketing many goods to innocent minds, it does not impose on them any severe consequences as such why would they stop, it is so much fun for them to fuck and come back to the beautiful homes, beautiful wives and beautiful children. So in part our society take some of that responsibility too (I have to tell you that across the history some society punished infidels severely because those societies realized the depth of the destruction such behavior cause on the nucleus of the society i.e. the family)
So we really as women who suffered greatly as a result of all that should stand up together and ask for more severe punishment and consequences for behaviors like this, for those men who use sex to reach their ultimate goal of pleasure and control.Dear Harmony
I agree there is a sick game to the whole “screwing around on your wife” thing. All my H’s friends have “done it” at one time or another- so he says. Birds of a feather flock to together, right? …..or Forrest Gump “stupid is as stupid does”. wtf.
You know Harmony, I have wished for justice many a time. And with the way the world is now, there seems to be little. But there is a natural law of consequence here. Most serial cheaters DO lose thier wives. Have limited access to their children. Only to make the same mistakes, over and over. Pretty sad when you think about it. Losing their marriage does matter to them. Even if they are acting like aholes about it. It matters.
Sometimes it is the only justice we can bring. The removal of ourselves. Or sometimes, I think justice can served by a life sentence of staying married, and being accountable, and doing the work, and living knowing with the spouse you have hurt so bad. and living with themselves. But this can be too hard for us. we get stuck with the baggage either way. but eventually, its one or the other.
Dear Sharron,
lovey, I dont’ understand the revised post nup, zero tolerance thing you are doing right now. believe me you are loved and supported, no matter what—but I just don’t understand why the change of heart. I do understand the need to delay and stall the pain of leaving, (I do/have done that). I am doing a little of it even now. But one day Sharron, we got to follow through. there is no way Steve can walk that tight rope. one bad move and its divorce. it will be divorce sharron. he can’t do it. It’s like asking a duck to fly.
but if you can live with how it is, and accept where he’s at. then maybe there is some happiness for you in staying. I just dont’ see how the current arrangement does anything for you. or what is different about it this time. Forgive me, I just want to understand where you are at with this.
love to you
Pam, you are right, I have to accept for now this much justice for all their wrong doing, as you mentioned not to have their wives, their children in their lives day in and day out is by itself is a big loss for even them even if they are devoid of soul and morals i think they still feel the loss, My h is now by himself in a big house full of ghosts, his past ghosts, and I am rigt now with my beautiful kids, listening to their chattering as they play their computer games, it is sad that he choose sex over such a full life, but that his choice and he has to go with it.
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