- This topic has 37 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 8 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Sharron posted this in the wrong area, so no one saw it, so I have copied and pasted it here.
HI Everyone – I have a question for you all. I just spent the w/e with my husband. He is doing all of the right things – not looking around, scannning, objectifying, etc. For me?? Who knows!
But then, he is a different man in the sex department. Appears the sexual anorexia has disappeared. We had sex 3X’s in the past two days. He has also not been able to ejaculate with sex until we got back together this time. (Only on occasion in the past.) He is also intimate during sex. Not only that, but he wakes up with a big boner ( Boy, we are explicit on this site) every morning and ready to go again. He has never had much od a sex drive, has never initiated sex on a consistent basis, and he is hugging during the day, and even gets that boner when doing that. Can this be a good sign he is opening up – giving up some of the addiction and getting into me – Or does it mean something else? Hope this isn’t too explicit, but can’t explain it any other way.
Would appreciate your input.And let me jump in here with my reply.
Sharron, I get the feeling that both you and Steve are desperately trying way too hard and not allowing things to happen in the natural manner.
You and him cannot possibly work on your relationship until and unless his Sex Addiction and personality disorder issues are worked out.
This does not happen overnight, or in a few months or even a few years. You know that, yet you keep clutching at every plus or minus that you see in his actions, which causes you to swing dramatically from joy to despair.
To think that his erratic actions over one weekend would mean that he is ‘giving up’ his addictions is foolish. He can’t just ‘give it up’.
Steve is not emotionally stable enough to have the energy or the ability to do the hard work of fixing a relationship until he does the hard work of fixing himself.
i went through this with Larry. He just wanted everything to be better between us and he would try anything to keep me–remember, Sex Addicts fear abandonment and fear being alone. All of his efforts did not change or help his addiction. That’s why we were separated for 3 1/2 years.
All of yours and Steve’s efforts to patch up your marriage will never hold. It can’t. You know that. Stop making yourself crazy, work on yourself and let Steve do his hard work. Stop listening to his desperation (which is not a sign of his love for you but a sign of his illness) and wait until you see at least a year of sobriety and an emotional stability. Then, MAYBE you two can start to work on your relationship.
Hi Sharron,
I agree with JoAnn. I think you are skipping a whole bunch of steps here. I think you both so desperately want to be together you both are attracted as the SA and SAee. Which might be ok, fun for a week or so, then when all the sh*t comes back full throttle, lies, deception, denial, etc it won’t be fun anymore because the necessary and hard work wasn’t done. I can think of a possible couple of options to consider: 1. legally separate, both do your work, then date
OR 2. divorce, both do the work, and then date
As my therapist says, it’s the same story, might be a different chapter but the same story. I think you may be setting yourself up for heartache, pain, and disappointment AGAIN. Thinking of you, Love, NapHi Sharron,
My SA has always behaved in that way in the sex department, even when he was totally acting out. I think JoAnn has hit the nail on the head in that he is probably trying to hang onto you by behaving as you have always wanted him to. Give him more time to let his actions speak louder than words in the addiction department rather than the bedroom.
LindySharron, I really feel for you. Predator and I had that kind of intense chemistry that I thought was something that only existed for other people– until I experienced it for the first time with him. And it appears that you have it too and its the most potent drug there is… You have my complete and utter sympathies, because in this type of situation, it is nothing but a curse, IMO.
Its the “thing” that keeps us hooked even though the rest is shit… and yes, for me… it is very painful to read that you are having sex with psychodude. Yes, its my problem, (and at least your sick man wants you), but he wants you like predator wants his partner; for a placeholder. That is ALL that he is capable of. This back and forth that is going on…is not healthy and I know that you know this. After a while, it all becomes an exercise in masochism, and I don’t think that’s you, is it? I have a feeling I’ve said this to you before? And please know that its coming from a place of concern. Just like the sex addict, we can’t have it both ways, either. You CAN still stay married to him and have a relationship with him, but AS a SEX ADDICT. If you can look the other way and be okay with that, then yes… go ahead… but that’s not what we are hearing.
Steve is the world’s greatest actor and Predator is right up there too… In that moment, they can be and do all that we need and want them to be, so that we will WANT to give THEM something that they want. But it is not real and they CANNOT sustain it.
Hi Sharron
I don’t mean to dampen your enthusiasm, and I realise that your situation might be very different from mine, but this does sound somewhat familiar to me.
My husband always said that he was a sexual person and often complained that we didn’t have enough sex, but he never actually did anything about it – I was always the one who had to initiate things (and he even admitted to that once). Soon after I moved out, I put a great effort into understanding what was going on with him and trying to explain to him what I was feeling. And every time we had these conversations, we usually ended up having sex. At first, I was really excited – for the first time in months I felt like a sexual being. I thought that I was getting through to him and that things were improving; but then I realised that sex addicts use sex as a panacea for everything. My emotional conversations were making him uncomfortable, and he dealt with his discomfort the way he deals with everything – i.e. with sex.
As I said, I may have misinterpreted my situation and it could be entirely different from yours. But that event was something that I struggled to deal with – I went from really hopeful to complete despair with that realisation.
I hope you’re able to find an explanation for his change in behaviour, and I hope that it’s positive.
Much love,
-LayaSharron,
Having sex means nothing, having a good sex life means nothing, having an h who hugs you means nothing and having i guy who is raring to go at any given moment means nothing….as far as you as a couple goes and a addict goes. My H did those things all the time while we were married. So I can tell you for wure without a doubt that it means nothing in the way as if he is cured or sharing intimacy with you. If I was making decisions to stay together just based on whether or not the attraction is strong; i would not be getting divorced.I am 100% beleiver in what NAP wrote. Split, let him get his act together, and then come back together when he is ready. Otherwise you are just going to be a casulty and hit by disaster after disaster. I think the best thing you can do is to not be closely invloved with him.
Were you able to talk with the ex-spouses? About the true reason for the breakdown in the marriage. I am realing guessing it is not going to be what he told you.
I still have to question why you want to be in a relationship with a guy who has been diagnosed shizo?? I can understand if he has had years of therapy and been able to work through the issues; only then maybe…but does schizo ever go away?
My quick review of schizo does not sound like they are a great person to be in a relationship with??
Sharron, I don’t think I have the wisdom yet that the other ladies have, but it sounds like he is doing whatever he can to keep you there out of fear of abandonment. Listen to all of the wise ladies above. I think Steve really has a lot of hard work to do first. Hugs to you!!!
Thanks JoAnn and everyone. I was just confused as to the drastic change in his behavior, and not really sure if it was a sign the sexual anorexia might be going away. You all clarified it for me.
JoAnn – I think you made a good point that Steve wants everything to get better quickly, as he has even told me he wants to recover now if not sooner. Of course, I know that is not even a remote possibility. And you are right that my emotions swing from joy to despair, because I am still catching him in minimizing, omissions and/or lieing and sometimes about totally insignificant things. I have told him before that we can’t even think about reconciling – moving back into together- until I see at least six months of total sobriety. I think a year is probably much more realistic. Thanks NAP – My mindset now is to cancel divorce proceedings and file for a legal separation. I only say that because I do see motivation and more awareness on his part, which I have not seen before. The next 3 months, before the divorce comes on the docket, will give me time to think it through. A legal separation has it’s purks, but divorce may be what I will have to go with to keep my sanity.
MsLindy -Now that I have heard all of the feedback, I can see it as a desparate attempt to hold on.
Lexie – you are right about the good sex and on again off again intimacy. It is like a drug and hard to give up,but no, I cannot turn my head and look the other way. You are always so direct and I truly appreciate that.
Laya – you made a good point. Steve gets very frustrated when we get into an emotional discussion about something he is uncomfortable talking about. He may very well be turning to the sex instead, as well as a desparate attempt to hold on.
Flora – I just find it so amazing the SA is able to maintain or have more frequent sex and intimacy while continuing the lieing and acting out. I guess it is that comparmentalization. My therapist recommended I not contact the ex’s. She feels that it just keeps me emeshed, and the ex may not be truthful, or exaggerate things because of ill feelings related to the divorce. I am still struggling with it – would really like to get a take on him from the ex’s. You are right about the Schizo, but Steve told me his therapist stated he was on the low end of the continuum for making a diagnosis of Schizoid. She apparently changed her mind, because when I talked with her she told me that was his diagnosis. Steve was way over her head, so who knows. He certainly does fit the criteria, so will be interested to see what label the new therapist puts on him.
In the meantime, I am working on my severe trauma/ptsd issues on a weekly basis with my own therapist. Steve is paying for it, and he certainly should since he put me there.
Thanks, all of you for replying so quickly. I love you all.Sharron,
Here’s a suggestion. Why not do a one month cold turkey ‘No Steve’?
It will clear your head and allow you to think about yourself instead of him. It will give you time for reflection without his drama. Whatever he does during this time should not concern you–this time is for you.
No computer monitoring, no talks, no sex, no phone calls, no e-mails, no texting, no driving by to see if he’s home, no going to places you know he will be.
I challenge you to try it. If you can’t do it then you might consider talking with your therapist about why you cannot separate yourself from Steve even for a month.
Let us know what you think.
Hi Sharron,
The hugging and interest in sex are not intimacy, they are physical aspects of a relationship. I made the huge mistake of reading too much into these things, and worry for you that you are reading to much into these things as well. My first husband was like many of the SA’s on here. He critisized my looks, he called me fat (at a size 6), he never really wanted sex and i was the one to initiate. So when I found the h, i thought he was so kind, loving and affectionate. So here I am 8 years into the relationship with the SA; and I am just as abandoened as with the first h…but we had sex and he hugged me and told me he loved me. Huge MISTAKE. This is NOT intimacy.But what both marriages lacked, and i know this now after this long year, is intimacy. Something it would appear a schizoid would be incapable of giving you, something a sex addict would be incapable of giving to you or hard to give to you. Intimacy is growing and sharing your world as a couple, that you both bring out the best in each other, and you plan and grow your future together. You each partake in many of the household, parental and financial duties. You help each other out, you help each other grow. You look forward at a promising future together. An addict (any addict) is not able to give intimacy. this is not just what JoAnn says, but is also backed up by many other books on intimacy. He is just not capable. And to be capable requires years of hard work, and then its okay at best.
Intimacy is built by sharing these responsibilites to each and together. This is the foundation that holds a marriage together. I am willing to guess that most of our marriages were not built on much of a foundation; and we for the most part are lost and empty as far as our relationships are concerned. because our SA’s are incapable of being this person that we require; and that person we yearn for.
I also think that you are picking and choosing what you like to hear from each therapist, poster, and even Steve. You are taking it and spinning it to however you feel or need that day. This decision has not changed that much, the stats have not changed that much, the circumstances have not changed that much; but you are spinning like a top and flipping back and forth day to day. I realize that he is your husband…and this is a big decision….but I really would advocate in this situation no contact for a certian period of time. Granted you are not living together, but you are still with him, haveing sex, dating, talking….it would appear that he has never got out of your head.
I know as with any relationship that there are several factors. Please do not overlook the big picture or any harsh realities to avoid what just may be the inevitable. You cannot save steve or yourself from any unpleasentries that may be in the future, it has to happen or will happen eventually if it is meant to. Please don’t caught up on little shreds of info or words to make big decisions.
I hope the best for you. Love, Flora
I’m really sorry Sharron, that you are suffering so. I think he pulls you back in, because you (like all of us) want to hope so much in the possibility of change, healing and recovering the relationship. I know how bad it hurts, and I know how good it feels to just believe for a bit that it is going to be all right. I’m so sorry, but I think the sisterhood has spoken on this one. And I agree. This is not good for you. Try the one month cold turkey thing that JoAnn suggests.
much love and light,
D.Sharron, I also know that you read its called a break-up because its broken. The cold turkey approach is what they suggest. And even if it is part of counseling marital or otherwise, it is a stituation that they spoke about. It iwll be hard, and each time you break that rule of no contact, you start over again at day one…30 days just like they suggested. But like JoAnn said and like they said in that book..if you can’t do this you really need to re-evaluate why. You don’t need steve to be whole. I relationship should be a pleasure not a burden.
I don;t mean anything I said in a mean way, I just see these things and wanted to bring them out in the open. Love,
floraHi Joann – I agree that I probably should do that, but with the divorce on board for August I don’t know any other way to handle it. By seeing him, I know what he is doing and if
he is lieing. I still feel lieing is a conscious choice, and if he can’t stop doing it by August that will impact my decision as whether to divorce or pursue legal separation.
I was totally separated from Steve and did not see him from the time I filed for divorce in February until about three weeks ago. There was no phone or E-mail contact, and no driving by his house. Nothing like that. At that time, I let him go. Then, came his desire to quit therapy with Terri and have my therapist recommend a qualified sex therapist who does EMDR. That is when I got hooked again. It has gone through my mind that he knows I will have no further contact with Terri and any information he told her pre February will not be privy to me. I had told him, previously, I would have to talke to her before ever making a decision to reconcile.
I have talked to my therapist about this, and her take is staying involved with him and monitoring his behavior is not healthy, but at the same time acknowledges my need to do it secondary to childhood trauma with good old dad. She is working with me via EMDR to bring out that trauma, and hopefully assist me in resolving the, what she calls, severe ptsd from him as well as that trauma impacted by Steve. She then feels I will be able to let this all go and make an informed decision about whether or not I want to stay with Steve. She also stated that, if in the process, she feels my relationship with Steve continues to remain unhealthy beyond a reasonable period of time she will tell me.
Does that sound reasonable to you?
Thank you so much for your continued interest in my well-being. Also, for transferring my post. I was beginning to wonder why I didn’t have any replies. Stupid me.
Much love to you.Thank you Diane and Flora. Please read my reply to JoAnn and see if it makes sense to you.
Sharron
“I agree that I probably should do that, but with the divorce on board for August I don’t know any other way to handle it. By seeing him, I know what he is doing and if he is lieing.”
So, Sharron, how’s that been working for you so far? You DO NOT know if he is lying and you never will. This is an exercise in futility. You will not ever be able to read his mind. You will only regain that trust after years of him proving to you that he is trustworthy–and he has not even begun to do that.
You do not trust him and you question everything he does.
What are you afraid of? You seem terrified of leaving him alone to his own devices even for a month. That is control. That is not healthy.
STOP.
Hi Sharron,
I want to say this with respect: you sound desperate to me. You’re posts since deciding not to divorce and getting back with Steve have an overtone of desperation and rationalizing to them. This is my opinion and observation. You were very clear when you were in the process of divorcing him. You have flipped in your thinking. Its either one way or its the other. Are you familiar with the splitting defense mechanism (ITS NOT MULTIPLE PERSONALITY DISORDER) ? I think you may have this mechanism going on…..just a thought…Love, naps
Hey Nap – I really don’t think there is splitting going on with me. I think the key words in splitting are 2 separate and contradictory versions of reality co-exist. I feel that I am totally aware of the reality, but when it comes to Steve I cave. I think it has more to do with past trauma and association of my Dad to Steve. If it is splitting, I am totally unaware of it. I also do not see rationalizing either. I have seen a change in Steve regarding motivation and awareness, but I also know it will take years for him to recover. My hang-up is not being able to let go. I would, of course, love for the marriage to work out. All I know right now is I must have some form of mental illness. Ha! Not really, but am certainly a poster child for co-dependency. If I have flipped in my thinking, please tell me how – again, not aware of it. I just see a flipping in my decision making.
Oh Sharron– have to say that I agree with JoAnn and the others… and I disagree about lying. With a pathological liar, they honestly do not even realize that they are lying and they CANNOT control it. I observed this with predator when he was chatting with me, thinking that I was another woman. I wouldn’t have believed it either if I hadn’t seen the words with my own eyes. It was the most phenomenal thing– ever! And he wasn’t even lying about anything important. They lie, like my precious kitten licks himself clean. It is ingrained and instinctive and automatic.
I do see you operating out of a place of fear that if you let go, for even a little bit, he will completely fall to pieces. Trust me, he won’t. He got by very nicely before you came into the picture and he’ll be fine with out you too.
This is psychodude and he has spent a lifetime perfecting his psychoskills. He is a parasitical survivor and will willingly and without any remorse whatsoever suck the very life out of whomever he wishes and needs because that is what he does. He may feign a certain kind of remorse, but it is not real and he certainly can’t sustain it. If it were real, he would’ve been able to stop all of this nonsense a very long time ago… but he cannot stop and no amount of therapy of ANY KIND can change this.
Think of a paraplegic in a wheel chair. His spine was severed in an accident. He can no longer move his legs. He wants to move his legs. He wants to walk and run and do all of the things that he sees most people being able to do, but that part of his brain, no longer works and so he can’t and no amount of therapy or love or support can help him to walk again.
And that is just how it is for Steve… There is NO difference. His brain does not work like most people’s do and you cannot fix something that isn’t there, to begin with.
Honey, I am worried for you. This is masochistic behavior on your part. My therapist would say the same to me…
There really are only two choices here, well three.
1. Go on as you are… in pain, suffering, monitoring eating your heart out.
2. Look the other way, but don’t complain. (you said this wasn’t an option)
3. Leave and never look back.
You are trying and trying to come up with #4, but it is impossible. He is not going to recover, no matter what.
If he cannot walk on his own… then he simply won’t be able to, with you either.
(((hugs))) and much love,
Lexie
Dear Sharron,
You can do it. Let it go. Let the relationship go.
You will not die.
Your life will not be over.
You will find your way. And it will be better.Hi Sharron,
I thought about this whole situation on the way home. I have been reading and responding to your posts for a quite a long time now. Is it possible that what you are looking for from us is some sort of validation, from your peer group, that that the progress that Steve is making and that the decision you are making….are the right ones?I notice that you are trying to focus in on many small details to support your decision, but yet no one is supportive in these small things and say “yes sharron, thats it, Steve has turned around”; because no one has that feeling that this has happened based on what you have said and the amount of time that has passed in steve’s recovery.
And i think the only way to be happy with the decision you have made…is for you to be happy with that decision you have made. If you are confident then we support you. But I do not hear that you are confident in much of any of the choices that you have made with steve. You continuely ask us for advice, however don’t really seem to listen or take any of it. I can’t help but to think, that if you continually question your decisions, and look for external validation…that you are not happy or sure of your decision.
So maybe for the next while you think about what does Sharron want, where do you see yourself in 10 years, what are your hopes and dreams? I don’t think focusing on every little thing steve does is the answer. If you can become at peace with yourself and your decision….the crazy that you have created by becoming so dependent on every move or word steve says, will go away. So will your worry and your panic.
Because in the end you are the only one that makes this decision and you are the one who has to live with it. No one on here will say that steve has turned a corner in this amount of time. We all are very educated, are aware of Steves history, and could never wish that life upon you; because that would be a false statement.
What does your heart and your inner voice say? Strip out the what if steve this and what if steve that…what are you left with? and is it enough for you?
with Love, Flora
HI Flora – Wow! you were thihking about me on the way home. Don’t know if it’s good or bad – probably thinking what a nut case I am, and I truly feel that way.
Right now I am so frustrated!! Having a Crown Royal and trying to calm down. Steve just returned from a therapy session and called to tell me how it went. My God!! I am in disbelief!!!
His therapist is one my therapist recommended, and I am just not sure if he has a handle on anything with Steve. Granted, he only has seen him 3x’s, but a couple of things he said leads me to believe he doesn’t get it.
1. He told Steve that you can’t go through life not seeing women. We all know that, but Steve’s problem is clearly looking around and scanning. Had 2 triggers approximately a month ago. I said, that is all well and good if you don’t have an addiction and it is non-purposeful. I reminded him that he posted on RN that looking around and scanning is problematic for him, which then leads to acting out. Steve got defensive with me and the same old shit started. He had the audacity to tell me that maybe looking around is not a problem for him. I told him to go back and read all of his lessons on RN where he clearly stated his problems are looking around, scanning and objectifying. Can’t be much clearer than that!!! (Repeating myself). The therapist asked him if he continues to look, fantasizes and takes it home with him. Steve told him that is not an issue anymore. I don’t think the guy things it is a problem for him.
2. He told Steve the reason why he probably lied about the car he took to church on Easter was because the subject probably evoked a response in Steve that I would have disapproved. No-Way No-How. Why would I give a shit as to which car he takes to church. Steve admitted it was probably an ego thing since it is a sports car. So, I guess lieing is okay!!!
I told Steve that no-one knows him like I do, and I am the only one who watches him purposefully looking around, and then looks away if I catch him. His therapist doesn’t have a clue as to what he is dealing with.
I am going to make an appointment to see my therapist tomorrow rather than Thursday. I have to bring some closure to this as it is driving me nuts. She maintains Steve’s therapist cannot be manipulated by Steve, and I am thinking don’t bet on it. It just seems to me that Steve turns it around, and somehow it always looks like my fault.
I don’t feel I have been wanting validation from you guys that Steve has turned the cornerl. I am just venting, and I know he hasn’t. I have just said that he is motivated now, is not acting out as much, and seems more empathetic towards me. In venting those feelings, I think I validate for myself, that even though he is trying, there are years ahead.i
And, I saw a ray of hope with EMDR because my therapist told me they have had very good luck with it.
I know you guys are all sick of hearing about it, and I don’t blame you. It has certainly been a struggle for me.
After talking to Steve this evening, however, I see once again what little insight he has. I see how he dances around the subject, minimizes his behavior, and feels he is much more successful in managing his addiction, and further down the road than he really is. He always seems to think if he hasn’t triggered in a month he is well on the road to recovery.
I can’t take this anymore!
Thanks for your love and caring with someone who has been so rigid in accepting what the inevitable is.Hi Sharron,
I am just trying to figure out why you would keep beating your head agaisnt the wall and why you remain in this frenzied state.Anyway. As we all see SA’s fool their therapists all the time. Heck they fooled us the wives (myself 8 years, some 20+) and are with the for the most part 24 hours a day 7 days a week; how hard is it to fool the therapist when you only see them an hour a week. A therapist can only deal with the information they are given, if the SA is only 50% honest the therapist only has 50% of the story to work with.
They do it all the time. My SA did it with one, and he has the second one equally convinced. I think many therapists make the mistake that this is just a man thing, and treat it as sex addiction or infatuation with women…or that these guys will not lie; when in reality the underlying disorder or problem never gets addressed and they lie like a rug…lie lie lie. I think maybe they feel sometimes that they must just lie to the wifey to keep things hidden, but sorry they will lie to the therapist to keep the secret life hidden as well. But in order for an SA to get better and for this to happen you would have to a patient that is equally eager to get “to the bottom of things”. I truely think sometimes that the SA does not think they have a problem and neither does the therapist.
Flora – Steve said to me, “I suppose you want me to change and go to a female therapist.” Told him I don’t care what he does. He accused me of thinking his therapist is saying these things because he is a guy, and he intends to tell him what I said. Who gives a shit – tell him. Why would I care. I do think there is some of that going on, or Steve is just not telling the whole picture – probably the latter. If he still gets angry and defensive with me, I am sure he doesn’t have the insight to disclose in entirety to his therapist.
I’m just sick of it all!!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.