Recognizing Manipulation and Gaslighting

Thanks daisy, I could not remember your story.

Clare , that was a great post.

Well, I certainly think that sums up how I felt about the Deb situation, Teri. I think you strategy for dealing with the coparenting therapist is spot on too. That’s exactly what we used to tell our clients before a deposition or court testimony. Answer only the question asked, as directly as possible with no elaboration or explanation.

Exactly like an SA. My brain won’t let go of this topic this morning…

I remember thinking that if I tried to tell him something a different way, maybe he would get it, so I would try to think of an analogy, different approach, etc. Then he would accuse me of changing what I was saying and I would find myself defending myself rather than communicating.

This is what I see happening with my son and his dad exactly. He tries to tell dad over and over that he is distressed and does not want to go on visitation. He tries over and over again in different ways because whatever he just tried doesn’t work. Then dad finds a way to attack him on the new way, and my son ends up having to defend himself. And it sucks because he has to tell his dad for the documentation for visitation. This nightmare needs to end.

ClareK- you’re my hero! You said something in another post last week (couldn’t find it when I tried to go back and respond) about how you can still ask for him to move out even if it’s been months since the last discovery. That has really resonated with me b/c I’ve felt that my H keeps moving the bar – he moves the date from when he should be expected to have not acted out – first it was 8/31, our first D-Day (or first one in recent times) and then it was 10/31, our 2nd D-Day and then it’s after we met with the MC on 12/20. That has led me to being hypervigilent b/c I feel the need to “catch him” so I can kick him out then & there. But you have made me realize – there is no magic line in the sand. I can ask him to leave whenever I feel that is necessary. All that is he has done is enough to have led to that action.

Stay strong – these next 11 days are not going to be easy but I suspect that once he does move into his new apartment, the second guessing will deminish quite a lot and you’ll move into “moving on w/out him” mode.

clarek,

this REALLY resonated with me!!

the “good girl” thing…totally right there with you. My hero used to be Miss Melanie from Gone with the Wind – so generous, kind, so much faith in people. Endlessly forgiving -self-sacrificing – just pure “good” (or what my idea of “good” was). I aspired to be like her (never got even close). Now I see how dangerous that is to have no boundaries and not prioritize yourself at all. She’s not my hero anymore. Teri – you are rapidly becoming one of my new heroes. My new motto is no one can save me from a toxic situation but myself.

that is an AWESOME post. thank you.

stay strong, you know you can do it. 11 days sister. it’s great that you are framing it that way. sometimes putting things into smaller chunks can make them more manageable.

LIGHT BULB!!!! (that’s what i need to do now)

and thank you sisters, with supportive families, for sharing that. sometimes i think even in non ‘codendent’ models. too much emphasis is placed upon what is in US that caused us to be with and stay with these guys.

sometimes, i think we were just plain unlucky.

it may be partly true that our childhoods contributed, or that we want to be ‘good’ and that can blind us to the reality that some people are, well, ‘bad’

but we might have just been at the wrong place, at the wrong time…

Oh FC! My husband said the exact same thing! They know us. They know we are kind people who care deeply about our families! And then they say that stuff! “do you want to blow this family apart?” “Do you know what it is going to do to the children?” “How can you give up on us?”. It’s horrible. It’s not fair. It’s manipulation.
Today I said I needed him to take the kids Saturday night for a few hours because the neighborhood girls were getting together because I’m moving. He said, wow, you are having a party for leaving your husband. You are a real piece of work. You better ask the kids if it is okay for you to “party” while their lives are being turned upside down.
It kills me. KILLS me when he says stuff like that.
I’m still going to the “party”. I told him to take the kids bowling. They’ll be fine.

FC

“do you want to blow this family apart?”

simple answer

“no.” “but you did”

then walk away.

LS – glad you are still going to the party. that’s the best answer ever.:)

ya, he did plenty of his own partying…

Oh yeah…party till you drop. You have more than earned a f–king party.

It’s always so refreshing to hear reality. When I was alone with my thoughts he would have really been able to get me to feel so guilty that I wouldn’t have gone. I would have ended up apologizing to him for being such a terrible mother and person.
Yikes! I’m so glad that lady is gone!
Keep posting ladies! Don’t stay alone with your thoughts, these sisters will set you straight!!!

Exactly! Teri, you are so onto something there. THAT’s why they choose such wonderful women, because they are so adept at hiding behind our strength and capacity to keep our families up to our standards regardless of their behavior. We can be counted on to hold up everything they abandon. Their lives would be hell with lesser women, they’d be living in total chaos.

Well, there’s a new day dawning, and it’s not a dicksprout kinda day.

Yeah, what’s with that? Like guilt is so irresistible we just can’t bear to live without it.

Dumbass

Lol. I just laughed outloud. Guilt is so irresistible we can’t bear to live without it. Seriously!