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You were taking care of yourself and limiting unnecessary stress, Lynn.
Where did you first meet him?
At a Freethinker’s Society meeting that discusses local community issues and responses. He and I had often ended up supporting the same side of discussions, and our humor was pretty closely matched. I’d probably been in group settings with him every three weeks or so for a little over a year before I agreed to go out. He asked respectfully about once every two months. It was the farm that got me, I couldn’t resist that. He’s not dating anyone else, that anyone seems to know about. Gosh, I’m jaded and suspicious, aren’t I?
I told him the comments that led me to pull away and he was horrified at himself thinking about it, regretting what he said in hindsight. Still… How do I know that’s not just a spin on the reality? I do use dark humor here, too, and say things I’d never do. But you all are right. Why put myself in a stressful situation? I don’t owe him understanding. I do owe myself healing.
It’s not wimpy, Lynn. It’s easy for us to tell you to tell him to just bug off, because it’s not our personal situation. I think you were gracious and humane, not wimpy. xoxo
I’m really sorry he isn’t turning out to be a prince, Lynn. You know how it is…you have to kiss a lot of frogs and then you marry your Prince and then he turns into a frog monster of monumental properportions and then you split and are single again and dating and…..Geez. Where are all the Princes? One would really think you could find one in a community garden?
SIGH. Hugs, Karen xxLynn I haven’t had the time to read all the posts. All I have to say is you can do so much better than him.
I would like to say Lynn, for me… I would be far more concerned with the man that says everything right, that appears to be prince charming (like my, what initials do you use for man i’ve been with for 10 years, have 2 children with, but am not married too?, whatever… my nightmare). I read all the posts and I get it. But if this guy were dangerous, he would know better than to say those things whether he thought them or not. Because the dangerous ones are manipulative and smart.
This guy sounds more like a jokester that likes to get a little attention for what he thinks is being funny. And he’s just a little too socially awkward to know how stupid the coffee joke is and that it is a major turnoff. Probably if you explained to him that it makes him look insensitive, and that it’s in poor taste, and really not funny, he would get it – and not use it. Honestly, he may be a little insensitive, but I bet he’s harmless. At worst, he’s probably a bit of a chauvinist and may tend to objectify women without even realizing it, MAYBE. At least you know what he REALLY thinks because he’s not trying to pretend he’s someone else. Awful that I would call a man like that harmless, but I’m sorry, after the men we have lived through or are currently living with, that’s nothing!
Many guys are insensitive to women to a degree, they just don’t get it. They don’t think like us. Good men have empathy, just not to the degree that most women do. But it doesn’t make them bad people.
Keep working on your recovery, this PTSD shit is awful. Especially when you cannot hide it when something triggers you, from others you don’t know all that well. This man doesn’t know what you’ve been through (or does he?), so that being said, all of us women know exactly how you feel, but no one, unless they are living with this disorder, could begin to relate.
I know you all don’t agree with me, but it is just my opinion. These men can’t hurt you unless you let them. We know there are a lot of bad guys out there. None of us want to be blindsided again. But you have to LIVE. Take chances. And probably make more bad decisions before you find the right one. It will all work out for you, as long as you keep in working on your recovery and get yourself healthy again.
I haven’t even begun EMDR, nor have I separated from HIM, which is awful because his face alone is a constant trigger!!! But my journey has only just begun with Dday being just in late May/early June.
Thinking of you girlie
kelly, you bring up an interesting point. that the really crafty ones are super smart and don’t say anything wrong. i think that might be true…
however, i think you are giving these SAs too much credit. it is possible to see through their shit (IMO) even when they are being at their crafty best. they always make some stupid slip.
i think they can be brilliant – i mean you would have to be brilliant to hide what they hide and get away with it. however, SO much of their energy goes towards their secrets, that some parts of their cover slip, and we get a glimpse in.
i like to think this, anyway. that it iS possible to detect them. the best way though, i think, is your guy reaction. in my experience, my body ALWAYS knew, i just didn’t listen.
Lisa I agree with that. However, I do not think the slip comes on the first, second, third date? ya know? Yes, you will see soon enough. But it just seems that this guy is kind of clueless about women. IDK. Such a stupid joke about the coffee. I apologize ahead of time Lynn, if you continue to date this guy and end up marrying him! LOL!
Like I know anything about dating, but that comment about the coffee would be such a turn off for me, I wouldn’t date him again. Kelly, I really liked what you wrote. And Lisa, too, I think we do know, and then our head kicks in and makes excuses or reasons, but not once we’ve been through this.
kelly, i should have listened to my gut on the first date. 🙂 it may seem like i’m being too hard on myself. or that i’m giving the first date too much credit. but in my case, i didn’t listen. i rationalized my way into dating DW. 🙁
lynn, you are intuitive and bright, trust your instincts! 🙂
Greg made jokes and comments like that regularly when we were dating. I thought it was funny, harmless. Now I know better.
WARNING (disturbing):
When my XH and I were first married he would occassionally mention the anatomical parts of a female’s private area. Then one night when we were lying in bed he mentioned ALL the parts. There must have been 15 and he knew every name (proper) like an anatomy class. I didn’t even know there was that much down there. SICKO!!!
Here’s something we need to remember: sex and porn addictions (or compulsive use/behavior, if you prefer) are on the rise. This problem is going to get worse before (if) it ever gets better. More women and families will be devastated by it. Our culture has set us up. This is still a patriarchal society, and men still grow up with an enormous sense of entitlement. A huge part of what they feel entitled to is objectifying, dismissing, and belittling women and girls. We’ve got to start fighting back harder, for ourselves and for our children. Those comments ARE NOT OKAY. That attititude IS NOT OKAY.
As I’ve mentioned, I’m not out of the swamp. But I have a new zero tolerance policy for this shit. I will decide how I’m treated. No more abuse, whether it’s disguised as a joke or not.
I am here to tell you that my H uses the same coffee joke. I thought it was hilarious because he is white. Turns out the joke was on me because his hooker (1) was black. I thought she would look like Beyonce instead she looked like Tracey Chapman.
There is a study that suggests women #1 attraction to men is wit. That was one reason I Loved my H so much. Now his jokes just seem like ego strokes.
Some comments are more than red flags, they are red SIRENS with flashing lights. Back in January, when my H was seeing hookers unbeknownst to me, and had also started up with the bimbo temp, he was doing personal training at a gym to lose weight, with my encouragement. He told me that he had been watching an Asian girl working out in the gym and he told the trainer that Chinese girls’ vaginas are shaped differently and “turn in a different direction” than “Western ones.” I was horrified at all this and he said oh, don’t worry, the trainer is a “player” and they laughed at it together like “two middle school boys.” I told him no, the trainer most likely thought he was a freaking pervert. Not long after that he stopped going to the trainer. He told me this was a “common joke” among “teenage boys” in his home country and there was nothing perverted about it, it was just “male bonding humor.” This also from a guy who would have blown his top and screamed at me if I had said one word about any good looking guys working out in the gym.
Unbelievably, I swept all this under the carpet because he had just moved back in and I didn’t want to “ruin” things by starting an argument.
Wow. My (i don’t know what to call him.. SABF?) SABF has NEVER in 10 years talked like that. Not even joking with his friends in front of me. His friends may, and he would kind of laugh along, but never did he make any stupid sex jokes, or anything disrespectful about women period. He was always SMOOTH. That was the reason for my comment.
My SABF clearly has no respect for women, maybe a deep seeded hate even, yet he makes each and every one feel like a goddess (for a day). I never knew until probably after a month of seeing him, and even then, I didn’t REALLY know, only had a feeling he might have things going on the side. He was young (only 24 then), so it didn’t seem so awful to me. We had only met, he was a kid, this is where I screwed myself from the beginning. I allowed myself to stay and enable him and myself with that excuse for years, by the time I woke up, we had 2 kids and it was too late for me.
I will sit tight and continue to learn from you all. Because honestly, my impression was that this guy was a bit of a jackass and certainly not a womanizer, but harmless.
smh…
kelly,
mine wasn’t a womanizer either. and didn’t make those kinds of jokes. in fact he acted like he was really naive and innocent.
the red flags weren’t sexual with him, but had more to do with intimacy, empathy and entitlement. i should have paid more attention to how he treated his sisters and his mom, because later that’s how he treated me.
but like i said, my gut knew something wasn’t right. right away. i didn’t know he was a perv, liar and a cheater. and a thief. but it just didn’t feel right. i ignored that, because he seemed like such a good guy, the kind you would marry.
oh, and another red flag – he didn’t have any friends. how can you have friends if you have an intimacy disorder. because you can’t let anyone get close to you if you have a HUGE secret.
My H doesnt have any friends either. Another thing that is my fault. SMH!!! You are right LisaK intimacy issues or more like one sided relationship with him.
My head goes in circles about whether he is awkward and naive and just spouting what all men say around here (and they do, 85% at least) and I’m so burned that everything means more to me than it does.
Or the other way where the comments are a few things that slip through what he’s trying to hide, a misogynist attitude and I’m carefully observing and caught myself before I got into another bad situation.
Well, maybe it’s neither. Just two people willing to move towards eachother but lost on old paths.
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