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before I ask this question rest assured that I am safe and separated indefinitely from my SA. I haven’t seen him in over 2 months and we haven’t lived together for 5. Our future plans have been rewritten and I’m beginning to move my life on without him.
That said – a few weeks ago I caught him in a lie, he’s paid for sex repeatedly since the last time I saw him, and probably before that though he claims it wasn’t the case. My history with him and this addiction is fairly extensive so I won’t list it here… just a question for the group…
It seems to me that a good number of women here have divorced the SA and escaped to sanity. A few others are still with recovering addicts who are working on sobriety. Of those recovering – how many of you have tried to heal a marriage after serious infidelity? What was involved? Any answers would help. Thanks.
HI Ann,
I’m not in the right category to answer. Just bumping this up so others might respond.
I will say that infidelity is infidelity to me. “Serious” infidelity—I’m not sure what that means. Do you mean penis activities that qualify as SA/compulsives ones?
I certainly tried to participate in the possibility of reconciliation with my ex, but the narcissism and the treatment model drove me away.
D.xoAnn, I’ve been separated from my SA for about 18 months and still have no idea if there’s a future with him. I think most of us have tried reconciliation, at least in the beginning. As Diane mentioned, the narcissism is the big block for me. Because having been so damaged from finding out about his secret life, I need a lot more from him now, and I just don’t know at this point if it’s even in him to give. Even if he never cheats again, his emotional limitations are still there, and it’s hard to envision those ever improving to a great extent. He’s seeing a new therapist now to work on childhood trauma, as Dr. Minwalla recommended, so I guess I’m still in a holding pattern to see what comes of it, if anything. xoxo
Ann. You’re braver than me. I didn’t even last a year. Speaking honestly I struggle with my decision to leave, but I know I’ll be ok. With him there was too much insecurity about the future. I am a planner and a goal setter. I found it devastating when I had started to piece things back together and look forward to find out he’d screwed (up) again. My feeling is that its painful right now, but its temporary, versus what might be a lifetime of pain with him.
I realized that may not have answered your question. What I found is that after dday my relationship deteriorated. My SA was incapable of any couples work. He became resentful that I knew his secret and recovery was all about him. He shut me out. I’m not sure we would gave made any progress
i love this, eliza:
My feeling is that its painful right now, but its temporary, versus what might be a lifetime of pain with him.
Ann,
In the first 4 months after discovery I really thought my SA and I would make it through this. He had highly recommended CSAT, I had my own counselor, we went to a couples recovery group together. I did art therapy, too. We were using an aromatherapy oil as an aid to help him manage triggers. It was to help him stop the downward spiral when he encountered thoughts of images that started his slide to using porn or contacting his whores.
But I woke up at night a lot in anxiety attacks, just feeling the blackness of what was in our lives. He swore he’d gotten rid of his porn stashes, stopped contacting his whores, and was in recovery for good. But then he made a mistake transfering some of his porn last February, some of the torture stuff, he put it on my phone by mistake, and I saw it and everything crashed.
I didn’t go to anything but my counselor, completely for me, after that. He did, but I didn’t care anymore. He had been moving all that stuff around while he was in all those recovery activities. He didn’t report it to any of his accountability partners or counselors. One was standing in front of me when it came up on my phone and in front of everyone he said he didn’t know where it came from; as if I were the one who collected 100+ pics of mutilated naked women on a cell phone SD card. He had even denied he had done anything like this at the polygraph two months prior, and passed, yet there it was in front of me. So, I didn’t care anymore what he was doing as far as recovery. Clearly, he was capable of doing it all and while still doing the worst sadistic porn beyond anything I’d ever imagined. He could lie to everyone forever, I had/have absolutely no hope for our relationship.
He took a job 5 states away, we have been apart 10 months. In that time he has “started over” with four different treatment models/counselors. So, he is still at step 1 of recovery, and the real history of his behavior is long gone. The new people get the cleaned up version and focus on his family of origin trauma and the abuse he says he endured throughout his first marriage. What that means, he is still living in denial. He told me at Christmas he was using porn at work, and hadn’t told his recovery group or counselor, and wasn’t going to. He’s going to lose another job because of this, like he did the last one. He’s 54. You don’t get a lot of job offers when you’re that close to retirement. He’s a time bomb. He was taken by the police to a mental health clinic for a suicide attempt last October. I can’t help him, nobody can help him because he lies all through his treatments. I can’t put my family in the path of that train wreck.
I am focusing on my children and their health through this transition. Another ugly divorce for them that I would have given anything to avoid. I also just signed up for online college to finish my degree so I can support my children.
I was separated from my Ex three times, separated for the 3rd time a year ago April, and divorced last October 31st.
The divorce was so traumatic for my Ex, (He never really believed I would go through with it) that he is now throwing himself 100% into recovery.
As you all know, from my previous posts, that Steve asked me to help him understand BPD, Masochism, and why he has the sexual addiction. Mistakenly, I did allow myself to help him, on occasion, to try and work through some of his issues.
By doing this, it just reinforced all the reasons I divorced him. So, one good thing happened. Steve is totally sincere in wanting to recover, he is doing everything he is supposed to be doing, (As far as I know) and yet he cannot control his compulsions of fantasies, acting out and triggering. It would take a life-time for him to change his brain.
The bad thing is it would not matter if he were to recover. There is too much water over the dam. The emotional trauma was too much, and the thought of always living on the edge of wondering if and when he will relapse, would never be a chance I would want to take. He is too emotionally damaged, and with all the effort in the world he will always be what he is. Sad for him, but I have found so much peace and tranquility in my life I could never think of going back to where I was.
I am convinced 99% that once an addict always and addict, and those few who do learn to manage the addiction will always have issues. I hope those of you that sometimes doubt your decision please understand that even in the best of circumstances, their brain is hard-wired towards addiction.
Those of you who left, made the right decision. Take it from one who knows and who has been there.
HugsSharron, thank you for that post. This hit the spot for where I am at right now. And Lynn yours did to. I joined SOS because I wanted to know about relationships 2-4 years and more in after dday. That “living on the edge” was the part I couldn’t manage. I was losing myself.
Eliza,
I am 8 months from d-day. I’ve been married to my husband for 33 years, involved for 36. The lion’s share of those years were very good years with a good man. He does not have a personality disorder. However, he paid for a variety of sexual experiences for approximately five years before d-day. He started out slowly, just very occasionally for 2.5 years. The last 2.5 years were out of control and very expensive.He is healing remarkably. I am seeing the man I used to know. I am healing because he is healing. He is willing to do a 100% post-nuptual agreement or agree to a divorce with no contest that gives me 70+% of our assets. He very much wants to stay with me. I have little trouble with triggers now. I would not have believed I could have been where I am now two months ago. I think my situation is very unusual for SA. I had an SA who had a serious disclosure and looked at himself, didn’t like what he saw at all, and decided he was never going back. I’m gingerly moving toward a relationship with him and deeply enjoy his company now, as he does mine.
He had a serious problem with fantasy thinking. He has to stop this thinking immediately when it arises, in the bud, and not let it go anywhere. He’s been very successful with the work his therapist worked with him on re: fantasy thinking.
Thank you so much everyone for your posts. I married my husband understanding he was addicted to sex. He understood he was addicted to sex. He’s seen counselors, been in treatment programs, and as I was married to a complete narcissist the first time around I know he’s not a narcissist, thank goodness, even though he’s self-focused. He’s quite humble most of the time because he know’s he’s screwed up repeatedly and it’s his own fault. If anyone ever questions if sex addiction is real – I’ve got proof. His addiction varies with his depression level, and he was holding his own for the first 6 years of our marriage. The last two he’s gone completely haywire and regressed slowly to where we are now.
I’ve dropped the rope, While I have no intention of letting him back into my life any time soon, I still believe there is some hope for him. Someone has to the poor man is a wreck. It’s all geared toward what he’s willing to do right now – and he seems to be taking the right steps.
I’m moving forward without him, but I have no plans of ever trusting the male sex again. The distance between us now helps. I just don’t get how I get past seeing him in my head standing in some whores living room – and worse. I’m trying to find some way to get that garbage out of my head. Maybe it just takes time…
You guys all sound like pros… and if it hasn’t really worked out for anyone here I doubt theres much hope for anyone.
Ann – I have been separated twice and currently in my own apartment for 7 months – I moved out of the family home after 27 years of marriage and have discovered that the material things mean little to me. I don’t believe that my H has BPD – I do think he is self absorbed and sexually confused and has led a life of such shame and deceit due to identity, cultural, and religious reasons, and that he has much more work to do, regardless of whether he is married to me, to figure out who he is and what he really wants. I will say that he has finally realized how much he has lost in abandoning his nuclear family for his extended family and how the terrible choices he made have hurt so many people.
The help that you both get makes an enormous difference in understanding that. Like Diane said – the CSAT model of treatment can be worse than the original trauma of the discovery – the healing that I have seen that has been authentic and sustainable involves a complete death to the old relationship and a willingness on the part of the SA (I use that term for convenience because I don’t agree or identify with it) to face the truth of who they are. That means being willing to be courageous enough to own their darkness and liberate you from the consequences of it – that is rare. You will notice that most of the women here initiate the divorces and the SA’s that do are coming from a place of self righteousness and anger.
I do believe that reconciliation is possible – I have seen it – the terms and negotiations are as unique as the two people in it – I have had to figure out my bottom line and be willing not to move from it anymore – that is hard but it is the only thing that has integrity. Re-marriage is always an option if the recovery was ultimately genuine – stay strong for yourself – if your strength could have helped him it would have already x Meg
“And if it hasn’t really worked out for anyone here I doubt theres much hope for anyone.”
Abso-fucking-lutey correct, Ann! Can I get an Amen, Sisters?
Penny that is such good news. My husband sounds the same even the same amount of time as SA. I’m just really scared to believe he has recovered because some of the other sisters have had similar experiences and their husband’s went back to their old behaviours. The way my husband is at the moment I can’t see him relapsing but I just can’t trust him and don’t know if I ever will. I am still triggered but certainly not as often. Also, my husband wants to go to Italy in July to celebrate our 30th wedding anniversary but I just can’t do that. Not all 30 years of our marriage are real so I can’t celebrate 30 years of marriage.
Cat. I DEFINITELY think you should take your H to Minwalla with you because if you do…he will never again ask you when you will be “over it.” I am not a big lover of head shrinkers or finding our inner child stuff BUT I think this Dr may “get it” and therefore he can make them “get it”. If you are going to spend all that money and make such a long trip…why shouldn’t the cause of your problems go too?
Do you know if his therapist has a relapse prevention plan in place for him?
If my SA had the money, I’d make him go to Minwalla before any other trip/holiday. If I could reverse time, I’d get him there before his first relapse occured – because that relapse set him back so far and made him so much worse. Crucial problem is they get into a fake recovery mode/pattern very quickly. Once it starts, it’s then VERY difficult to break. That first relapse also set my healing back to the very start and retraumatized me. Not to mention he wasted $8k on fake therapy for 1 year – pisses me off because that money could have been for Minwalla.
Cat, if your SA were to go too when you go, you could at least get the poly done with Minwalla – would save having to organize it here with a company in Australia.
Victoria – so true! The fake or “half” recovery is so rampant! In hindsight, I’m thankful I found out only 2 months into the fake recovery/reconilliation that he hadn’t stopped anything. Now, I think my H is in “half” recovery – I say that b/c I don’t think it’s completely fake – I think he’s truly trying to get help and he has admitted many many times that he needs help. What he doesn’t seem to admit to himself is the amount of work that is needed to get in a an extended period of sobriety, let alone a true recovery. I think the sex part is only half of it with so many of these guys – the real “addiction” is the seduction of the illicit, the seduction of lying and “pulling one over” on his wife, his boss, society, whoever. And honestly, that is the part that I have a really hard time getting over. To think about how much he lied to me and when I go back and piece things together – I realize things like the reason he showed up late to my daughters’ swim meet is b/c he went to a strip club or that the day I was literally tearing my hair out b/c my youngest had lice, he was off fucking his whore. The act isn’t what I focus on, it’s the betrayal of the family – of how so many times he just wasn’t there for me or for us.
Anyway, to answer your originial question, Ann, I do believe that couples can heal from this but those instances are extremely rare – both sides need to be honest about the amount of work needed to get in recovery and it probably helps to have the financial resources to have access to the best therapists and be willing to do what it takes to maintain sobriety and recovery. And, have had a solid foundation to begin with (as is the case with Penny and her H). Bev recently posted that Candice said in the Minwalla partner intensive that if you stay with your spouse, you have to be willing to monitor them, to police them. Is that what we want in a marriage? To get through all this trauma and still never be completely sure that they aren’t up to their old ways? To have to keep a key logger on the computer? To monitor the bank accounts and credit card statements to make sure no excess money has been spent? That’s the life I’m living now – it’s not the life I want to be living 5 or 10 years from now.
He has never asked when I will be over it even though it has been over 3 years. He understands how I feel and is prepared that I may never recover and he said he will never give up. I think they are working on a relapse prevention plan because she sent some sort of form/workbook to me when it was meant for my husband. They are working on this in therapy. I’m really pleased with his therapist. From my own research I think she is the best SA therapist in Australia and I met with her once and she confirmed with me she does not believe in the Co-dependence model. I have done a lot of research and there are many therapists that include SA in their shopping lists but this lady specialises in sexual disorders. Her name is Heidi McConkey Victoria if you want to take a look she has a website. I know nothing gets past her. When one of her patients was late to an appointment one day she called him because she knew he was up to know good. He was and she got him to the appointment.
At this point I am pleased with the way he is going but I need help hence my reason for Minwalla. To be honest I just want to do something for me.FC we were posting at the same time. I have trouble with the lifelong monitoring as well. I guess I have trouble with this because I am still traumatised and I’m still scared I will find something and I still go over documents (evidence) from 7 years ago. I have come a long way but I am still far from good. I think you can probably get to a place where you are confident your husband/partner will not relapse but you need to check for your own security. I am hoping that with time this checking is not triggering or traumatic. I don’t think Minwalla would advocate a woman stay with her husband if he thought that all of this would continue to be traumatic for her.
The best analogy I can think of is the wife or partner of an alcoholic checking there is no booze in the house. She isn’t expecting to find it necessarily but she still needs to check.I am pretty sue that is why Minwalla is pro polygraph. You do not have to check anything daily or weekly. You can go about your business and know that accountability is coming. I don’t check my kid’s grades every day from school. I get a mid trimester report and final grades. I look at them and adjust accordingly.
I am in NO way advocating that any of us stay with an SA. I am saying that if you stay and you care then you better use the poly.
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