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I will start with some background and then get to my rambling point…I am going to need some advice for this one.
I have known my H for 25 years. When we first met his parents had moved from Memphis to Louisiana for his dad to have a job. All I knew at that time about his family was his dad was an alcoholic, his older brother had left home at 18 and was in North carolina, his sister was married because she got pregnant by some asshole and he was cheating on her already, his other brother was my friend.
Skip a few years and our relationship was serious and his parents were moving back to Memphis. As I assumed I would meet them etc…H became more determined to keep me away. Well, bull in a China shop me did not let that deter me for one minute.
I met his family. I treated them like I would treat my family and I insisted that everyone behave normally. Now, looking back, I guess they were a little shell shocked and just let me have my way. I knew they were strange and had that whole “hide everything” alcoholic thing going but I wasn’t playing that game so I came and went and organized dinners and birthdays and whatever….like any good southern belle 🙂
They all just let me run the show and H’s father that was an asshole SOB to everyone else liked me.
He soon returned to drinking and died ( yes, there is a God). He died when my son was 2 months old and I organized the funeral, had dinner for his whole family ( 22 people), had my parents come and take care of my infant and toddler so I could do what was needed…..
He left my MIL broke and in debt and living in a dangerous part of town. I organized her selling the home, finding an apartment and in general getting her back on her feet. All this and she had 3 sons and a daughter doing not much of anything except what I directly told them.
She has ALWAYS treated me well and never said a bad word to me that I know of. I was the only one in the family that heard her whole story…..Her mom got pregnant by some drifter type in Ohio, guy skipped town, she was a twin raised by her grandparents on a farm in Ohio. Then, she meets asshole Bob ( FIL) and gets pregnant, gets married, and proceeds to have 4 babies in 5 years. Of course the alcoholic got worse and she was totally intimidated and had no recourse.
She has talked to me and told me the stories and shared her grief and embarrassment at her inability to protect her children. She adores them and she thinks they are all so wonderful. She will admit they have faults and such but in general thinks they are great.
I am the only one she really talks to. I have seen her thru all the bad times ( her mom dying, her grandparents death, got her on a plane to see her twin when it was needed etc) and I have organized all family gatherings and fun for 20 years.
I have love for this woman even though I blame her for my H’s problems in a way. I fight with myself about this all the time. I am angry but I know he made the choices. When all the shit hit the fan ( a year ago) I stopped all contact.
I posted before that I told my H that until he told his family what was going on that I would not participate in a damn thing. He told her while I was out of town. He said he told her that he had “cheated” and that I was “hurt”….blah blah blah..
Today, I get a card in the mail from her ( she does not email or text ). She only has a cell phone because I bought it for her and put her on my family plan ( separate from H).
Here is the card:
Dear Bev,We miss you!!I realize something is wrong but I don’t know what it is.
You have always done a lot for all of us and things aren’t the same without you.
Would you call me? We’ve always had honest conversations and I don’t want to lose your friendship.
Love You,
JanetNow, Someone PLEASE tell me how I call that woman who has had enough pain in her life and is 74 years old and tell her the truth?
It breaks my heart and I have NO idea how to do the right thing….
Sorry this is so damn long and involved. It’s just another example of the hurt and pain.
Exactly, Liza! What , if anything, did he tell her? I would be so pissed at him, unless he told her and she thinks there was confidentiality involved? Like you don’t already know, or something.
I have a similar relationship with my father -in-law, did lots of stuff for him, still see him sometimes if he needs a ride to the doctor or something, but refuse to talk about my husband, just divert the subject. He’s never said anything to me, and honestly, I don’t even know if he knows that he doesn’t live at home anymore.My FIL’s memory is getting bad. My husband was in Europe last week, part business, part vacation.I was having lunch with FIL after a doctor appt. last week and he asked me why I wasn’t with him. I said, because I’m not. He then more than implied that I was a bad wife for not traveling with him,didn’t actually use those words and said he noticed I didn’t wear a ring. I looked right at him and decided to go for it. I said your son is a bad husband, always has been, and that I am not tolerating it anymore. I did not mention women or sex or SA and he didn’t ask I had decided I would say that there have been other women, and leave it at that if he did.. He said, “Is this my fault?” and I said that last time I checked R was 50 years old and responsible for himself. It felt really good. I think it’s okay if you WANT to have a conversation with her, and I think it’s fine if you choose not to. I decided to because he and I have a relationship, I’m actually closer to him, spend more time with him than any of his kids, at least until d-day, it’s been a lot less since then. And he does miss me, and I thought I needed to share that with him.That’s tough, because I know you want to maintain your boundaries with SAPOS. And you don’t want to disappoint your MIL, or shock her and give her awful things to visualize about her son.
Either he didn’t tell the truth, and she would know that his smarmy version did not initiate such a drastic separation for so long and she’s worried about you because she has seen so much in her lifetime.
Or… she read between the lines no matter what lies SA told her about your relationship, but didn’t want it on a card that might be intercepted.
Or… she’s just missing a friend and the details are something she is confident the two of you can work out.
If you miss her as a friend/mother too, that’s a good contact for you. If you have more of a obligatory relationship, keep your distance.
A return card can’t hurt, at least acknowledging her reaching out. Having worked in several different ways with the elderly, I learned they are more emotionally resilient than we imagine, at times. And they’ve seen a lot in their lives, sounds like she has, so it’s really hard to shock most of them. Most take things in a more panoramic view of time, and so balance things in a way we sometimes can’t until we get to that point in our own lives.
Age just distills who we really are inside. You know her. What is she, really?
I feel personal towards her. I don’t feel obligatory ( as in oh hell it’s my MIL and I have to…).
She is either totally delusional or he told her nothing even close to the truth. She has always been “head in the sand” type. Her other son was going thru crazy shit and she would yak my ear off about it and then say “I shouldn’t be talking about it..”
If I choose to have no contact with them then I want them to know why. If I leave it to H then I have no way of knowing what he really said. I knew the stupid son of a bitch wouldn’t really tell the whole truth. Goddammit to hell…Fuckers can’t tell the truth. …
I do NOT want to talk about fucking hookers to my MIL. But I will if I have to…
It also involves my kids because now when there is an occasion I refuse to go. I have lied to my kids for the last year ( I’m sick, I have an appointment, I’m whatever…). It’s been doable until now and I told dummy that I would NOT lie again. Either he tells them or I tell the kids why I won’t go…
Fucking idiot.
I’d tell her before I’d tell the kids. No wait, she will blab. Ok, the kids have to be prepared before any blabbers know. You’re right, they are fucking idiots. No clean getaway for anyone with a conscience, that’s left in their wake on their race to hell.
They’re all fucking idiots! And we’re all goddesses, so I still can’t figure out how the hell we chose these men.
Maybe the best thing to do is to call her. Give yourself permission to let her know why you have disengaged. You have given h plenty of time to clue her in, and she obviously doesn’t know the whole story.
What a piece of shit he is to have thrown a good woman like you under the bus. I would love to be married to any of you women – you are all treasures. I’ve always joked that I need a good wife, not a husband, as I’m so busy with work and the 3 kids. I didn’t realize how true that joking statement was!
I knew he didn’t tell her enough. He gave me this long speech about what a honest conversation they had. But, all he detailed ( for me) was the part about how he didn’t even know his own mother’s story and he had never heard about her life. This was all believable because she is a yakker…whatever you talk about ,she turns it back to her. She spent most of her life silent ( because of her abusive husband) so now she talks….a lot….
He did tell me that he said he cheated and had not ben a good husband and from her letter it does not sound like he even told her that….
Bev, as painful as it would be to tell her this awful shit about her son, I think it might be more painful for her to be shut out of your life without some explanation. She doesn’t sound like a bad person, just one who has had a lot of bad things happen to her and hasn’t had anyone to support her or build her up – until you. I know I wouldn’t be nearly as strong as I am without my therapist and all of you. If I had had to deal with this on my own? I would probably be dead now. Maybe she didn’t do everything she should have done with her kids but I’m guessing she did the best she could with what she had and I would never judge someone for that.
Of course, you don’t have to give her any details, just tell her that he hurt you badly and that you are doing your best to take care of yourself and find your way. Even if you tell her that it’s just too damn painful to be around them right now, I bet she will understand. I’m guessing she wants to make sure not only that you are all right but that you aren’t angry at her. You’ve been such a rock for her. I bet she misses you like crazy. I would, if I were her. 🙂
Bev,
Remember these guys are “minimizers”. Of course he told her, but he likely told her that he made a big mistake and Bev is blowing it all out of proportion. he probably told her that he’s got it under control and she doesn’t need to worry herself about it.
I would call her and set her straight. If you ask your H before you call her, he will lie and tell you he did. Because in his mind, he did. He probably didn’t tell her much. He probably minimized the whole thing.
It’s possible that she may have forgotten since he didn’t make a big deal about it.
Just like my H said he told his sisters, his kids, but i have no idea what he told them. But when he told my son, I made sure I was there and I stopped him several times during the conversation to say “Let’s be honest here” and took over the conversation until he saw that I won’t tolerate minimizing. He tried to make it sound like he had an illness and that’s why he did the things he did. It’s so EASY for them to tell the truth just a TINY bit. but then they can say they told the truth.
Call her Bev. Set her straight.
I agree with LynnG , Since it is a relationship and not obligatory I would tell her as much as you need to to get your point across. The ripple effect is crap. I hate my SA as much or more for what he’s done to my family and kids. My father who is in his 70’s thought of him as a son. (my brother passed away 20 years ago) Now my father wants him dead. But he’s not all wishy washy sad about it as I feared. It’s more like “I dare him to knock on the door when I’m visiting” And what’s funnier is my SA won’t even call the house when my elderly father’s in town. Sometimes I tell him my dad’s in town when he isn’t lol.
A MIL is harder because it’s his mom, but I wouldn’t underestimate her. Keeping her head in the sand may have been her way of coping with a rough life that she felt she couldn’t escape. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t or won’t see the truth of what is going on. I think if you don’t say something it’s going to bother you more.Bev,
Just a thought…. Id show your h the card and say “What the hell did you tell her?”. If he can’t step up to the plate; he’s a big chicken shit.That’s an option, put him on the spot and see what he comes up with. Probably won’t be true, but you read him pretty well.
Bev,
You could look at it this way- they are SUPPOSED to tell their families. That is part of the treatment for addiction. They are supposed to live in honesty and have accountability. That way they learned they are loved for who they really are, despite their faults, or some such nonsense.
So either he tells her (and you can stand right there to make sure he is honest) or you have every right to tell her.
I am not one for elephants in the room, though. I would feel terrible if I kept it a secret. We all have to decide how we can best live with ourselves or our values.
dr. evil said he tried to tell his family but that “they didn’t want to know.” Yeah, sure he tried to tell them. He can’t even admit the truth to himself.
Bev, I would call her and tell her you and your h will be over Saturday and then tell him. It appears he did not tell her the whole truth or minimized it to save face. I’d make him go with you and you can sit quietly while he explains in front of you – to his Mom. Once he has told her, you can get up and hug her and tell her you will see her soon. Then march his ass back out to the car and tell him that is the last time you are going to be put in that position with his family. End of story!!
I am drinking a gin and tonic in a BIG cup so I am feeling brave and feisty right now.
I also work as a hospice nurse and I can tell you unequivocally that elderly women are the strongest population alive today. I would bet money that she can take what ever he says and be alright. She may even have something very worthwhile to say to him once she knows.I am absolutely considering that option. …I am too mad to think straight so I am holding out for now. I am curious to how he would respond. It is so very obvious that she doesn’t know near enough. And as he was pontificating about his own mother’s life, I said um, yea, I already know all that….
I do feel sorry for her and I truly do not want her in any more pain. But I swear I hosted every single solitary event in this family for 20 years and I just can’t fake it right now.
My other option is to get my SIL involved and tell the story to both of them. She loves me ( I absolutely rescued her ass with her cheating H and her young baby and her with no money). I got my niece ( her child) into private school and took that kid under my wing and into my home and gave her money. She ended up with a full scholarship to Georgetown and graduated with honors.
I am taking all advice and suggestions. I am just so angry to have to hurt one more person. But I can’t lie and fake a family gathering either….
You aren’t the one hurting people, Bev.
He did that.
You are just left holding the broom on the cleanup crew. I think Trish’s idea is great. Give the broom back.
I was posting at the same time Trish…..I think you may have hit it out of the park…
Teri, I have heard that ‘absolute honesty’ shit til I could puke. Yes, they are supposed to do that. He clearly did not.
Bev, you aren’t hurting them. He is the one who screwed up.
If you don’t tell then you are likely going to take the heat for him. They will wonder what your problem is. And you sure as heck don’t deserve that.
Absolutely give it back. He made the mess, now he needs to own it in front of his Mom. She will be ok. She will still love him. And it is OK if she is furious with him, she’ll get over it because she is his Mom. She needs to know that this mess is about him and not you. YOU did nothing wrong. HE did and it is time for him to fess up to Mom. If he is working so hard to be perfect to keep you, then this should not be too much to ask him to do. Especially if he wants you to come back to family gatherings.
Bet she knows way more than you think…there is no way to win with his family – they will blame you a lot quicker and without asking questions, than they will besmirch him….blood is thicker than water….some things you just have to write off. This may be one of them.. replace he and his family with those that deserve your effort and energy….just like he so easily could replace you…Having said that, I am a classic case of the gaslighted and it continues to filter my view of myself. Its tough to get bullied up on….I now just avoid the possibility.
We all know what it’s like to know something is wrong, and not know what it is. This woman is no dummy, even if she thinks her kids are great, if her son gave her a half-assed explanation, her gut is going to be twisting knowing it’s not the whole story. And she may well identify more with you than her own son, and she may genuinely be worried and hurting. Her card to me sounds like she’s trying in the only way she knows how to let you know she is open to having an honest discussion.
You can say to her (face to face preferably, just the two of you, she’ll get more understanding seeing your expressions) “look, this is your son, and I love you, and I don’t want to hurt you more than I know you have already been hurt, so can I say he has done some things I can’t move past and leave it at that?”.
Your absence probably hurts more than you confirming (in a pared down sense) what I’ll bet good money she already expects, somewhere deep in her heart, or maybe even closer, if I’m reading her right.
If you enjoy her company and that relationship, don’t let him ruin it for either of you. That’s a particularly narcissistic move on his part anyway. Keeping you two apart and uneasy is probably a dream come true for him. Screw him. See if you and your MIL can move forward from here as friends. She needs them.
(I’m a bull in a china shop myself, I’m sorry If I offended!)
“Bev, you aren’t hurting them. He is the one who screwed up.”
Amen, Teri! It’s horrific what these men do and we’re the ones having to navigate these types of situation to try to work it out with the most minimal amount of pain. In this way, we take on more of the guilt & shame and it isn’t our guilt and shame to take on.From recent personal experience, I’ve learned you can tell some of the story without getting into any real details (i.e. the prostitutes) and people are shocked and angered (rightly so) with all your spouse has done. We have lived with this for so many months or years, sadly, the gory details don’t shock us anymore and we sometimes forget that even a little bit of the truth is enough for an “outsider” to “get it”.
I would also question your H’s alleged recovery – is he really as recovered as he’d like you to believe if he can’t own what he’s done? That is one of the steps – telling those that need to be told. And if he completely minimized it with his Mom, then he isn’t ready for that step.
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