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I’m so glad JoAnn started this “thoughts” group, because it’s such a great place to share/vent without actually having a question per se.
I just wanted to talk about the weight of this “secret” addiction, and the toll it takes on us. The other night, one of our “couples” friends wanted to go out for dinner. I’ve been avoiding this type of thing for months–just not ready. Well, I felt like I should finally do it. I felt guilty for blowing off our friends for so many months, and I thought maybe it would be good for me. (Just fyi, the male half of the couple is one of my hubby’s best buds, and he’s here almost every Friday night, while they hang out, smoke cigars and have guy-time.)
So the summary of the night: It was so-so. It was good to see our friends (esp. the wife, who I haven’t seen in awhile.) But it felt so fake. Sometimes I feel like I’m in a pressure cooker waiting to blow (as well as an Academy Award winning actress). I don’t know what the answer is, but thank God I have you sisters to share with and get it out of my system. It’s just so unfair that everyone gets to think my SA is a good guy. And then if I react strangely to a comment he makes, I look like the bitch or shrew. Anyway, I just had to vent. I’d love to hear everyone else’s experiences if you feel like sharing.
Love, JulieI hear ya Zumbagirl, sometimes it’s nice to be out and “living” again see friends etc. but its hard when the other people don’t know, can’t relate so on.
I find myself storing up some anger towards my friends because they get to have a normal, loving (sometimes) life. I’m jealous of other peoples happiness – how rotten is that?!?!
Wouldn’t it be nice if you could start going out with women of the sisterhood?!??! Or other couples going through the same thing?
I hear you Zumba girl loud in clear. You know what, you were brave for going to dinner with them.
Sometimes I think we forget, how much SA has altered EVERYTHING, including past relationships. No, many of them will not be the same, they never can be, because of what we now know to be the truth. The looking glass is painfully real, and many of our friends will never know or understand the pain our partners caused us. Frustrating as hell.
You know what Zumba– they think he’s such a great guy? Let them. Really, just let them. It is one the few things he has left, people who do not know what an asshole he is. Let him cling to his image. hope they believe it. Then let him go home to his empty pigsty of a life that he ruined. the end of the day, who really cares what our friends thinks of our spouses. annoying as it is.
I would like to date a man who is divorced due to infidelity–and wants to start fresh and heal. Somone who knows what it is like to suffer, and want a second chance with GREAT gal, ME. damn it.
Doesn’t it just stink that we are the only one (my case) at the dinner table feeling like a phony and trying to hide our feelings to protect our h’s reputation! And they just have a jolly time with out giving a second thought to the elephant in the room. I don’t get it. It just shows how unplugged they really are from reality. And how plugged in we actually are. This would drive a weaker person insane.
Pam is right, those friends can have him. In the end we will know who our true friends are and those we don’t need anymore.I am tired of all the secrets, but I will not expose what he did, mostly to protect my kids and also his job. I think it will be time for me to get new friends. He destroyed a lot. Friendships will be included also.
my daughter told me last night “friends who matter don’t mind and friends who mind don’t matter.”
Hugs
HeidiZG, I have many of the same feelings about the people who are so supportive of my SA because I left him. He tells them how he wants to reconcile, etc. And they feel oh so sorry for him. When my kids are done school, I’m going to start talking. But until then I need his pay cheque to help pay the costs.
Diane,
It strikes me as odd that he tells people he wants to reconcile. What was that year of working on things all about? You didn’t run. He was given opportunity. He didn’t want to address the hard stuff you needed to stay in the marriage. So in actuality, he does not want reconciliation. He wants you to accept his bologne, and call that a reconcilation. But people should feel sorry for him. For being so arrogant. It’s a pity.
Wow Pam,
I LOVE how you just put that “he wants you to accept his bologne, and call it a reconcilaition”. It is my belief that is what they ALL want and that is the ONLY thing they want…to be able to have their cake and eat it too? It just seems we all have to go through all that recovery drama just to end up back where we actually started. We KNOW from the very beginning what we need them to do in order for the marriage to have a chance. They KNOW what they need to do. They will not do it but also will not ADMIT that they will not do it. When you think about it….where does the codependancy BS applied to us come into it at all? In my opinion…it doesn’t. Karen xx
Dear ZG,
I know what you are saying. I found I COULD NOT tolerate being around happy couples. Eventually, I found I could NOT tolerate being around anyone who didn’t know the truth. I could NOT stand watching him con everyone. It felt like a double violation…what he did to me and then having to keep it secret.(mainly to protect his job) As you know…when I finally blew…I blew BIG. I no longer cared what happened to his job, my financial security or anything else. It had to come out…I had to tell someone what he was doing to my home and my life because I had to get out of there. I have NEVER regretted that decision. It turned out to be the best thing I did in a long time. Why? Because SA’s need to FEEL the consequences of what they do to other people. As long as we keep their secrets they do not have to deal with ANY fallout other than what they get from their spouses….and they do NOT care about their spouses…they only care about whats in it for them? You suffer and they go on their merry way…no loss of reputation, no loss of friends, no loss of family or children…HELL…they don’t even lose sleep! I am not saying shout it to the world BUT it sure feels GOOD to shout it to the world and then watch them sweat for a change. Karen xx
AMEN KAREN!!! AGAIN, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!! Omg! People – Karen REALLY gets it!! Ha, ha! You are sooooooo right!!
Think about that Zgirl. I mean, why SHOULD your stupid (sorry) SA get away with it all?? While you continue to suffer?? Such BULLSHIT!!
And Karen, Sleep is a good one! My SOBSAH can lay his head down and I swear on a stack, fall asleep and be SNORING in 30 seconds or less!!! No lie! I asked him once, how in the HELL he was able to do that? Especially after we had a fight. His answer??
“Clear conscience”. REALLY DUDE??
Do you know he actually told me that “I” must not have a clear conscience since I couldn’t get to sleep at night!CAN YOU SAY GAS LIGHT????????????
NAP, to answer your question, we’ve actually had several discussions over the fact that his friends don’t know. I’ve gone from being angry, resentful to trying other methods–trying to show him that his friends could be helpful and supportive. He’s just so afraid of having them think of him as just that label. And you know what, sometimes I actually do think he’s being sincere–he seems like he wants to crawl out of his own skin sometimes and he can’t bear the thought of being that person to his friends. I kind of get it, but then I go back to the toll it takes on me, which is in no way fair. That being said, I haven’t felt like a boundary should be forcing him to out himself to his friends. On the other hand, I think I may be done with “couples” nights for a while, and if push comes to shove, I will get together with the wife of that particular couple (because she’s a friend), and at least explain that there’s some marital stress. One of the reasons I even said yes to going the other night (besides missing my friend), is that SA had texted me that they were interested in getting together for dinner. He said, let me know whatever you want to do, and if not, give me a reason to tell them. I just felt soooo tired and didn’t have it in me to figure out a reason/lie to pass on. Once again, I felt like I was the one who would be disappointing everyone. So not fair, but ugh, I just felt like no matter what, I’d be the bad guy. A few minutes after making the decision to go ahead, I knew I’d made a mistake, but didn’t have the energy for the fight that would happen if I backed down. But overall, I let my mood/fears rule my decision, and it was a mistake.
Gosh ZG you are really struggling and I can feel it in your words. Don’t beat yourself up you did what you thought was best at the time. And that’s okay. Listen to your gut it’s usually right on. You’re a sweet person, celebrate yourself everyday and you’ll be just fine.
Love, NapMy God Silver…we need to put that out there as a question! How many of your husbands can go to sleep as soon as their head hits the pillow NO MATTER WHAT has been going on before??? My best friend said her SA was like that…could fall asleep in 30 seconds at night OR even for a nap??? I REALLY believe these guys have developed that ability in orde to AVOID life and us in particular. I also believe they go to sleep easily because even though YOU are emotionally gutted THEY are not. This of course just points further to the fact that they couldn’t care less and actually do NOT have consciences or even emotional responses that in any way resemble a normal response to stress ect?
Nap…you and your one line zingers. 🙂 I love it! Karen x
Dear ZG,
You are WAY TOO NICE, dear girl! You have to stop worrrying how everyone else feels and worry about how you feel? Your SA is simply roping you in and as long as you play ball it is easy peasy for him? OF COURSE, he doesn’t want anyone to know. Why would he? BUT that really isn’t your problem ZG…it is his and it is called a consequence. If you don’t want your friends and family to think you are a pervert then don’t go around acting like one. You are going to tell your friend you have “marital stress”??? WTF ZG…u have alot more than marital stress dear girl and you NEED support from YOUR friends too. You must decide who you want to know BUT if you begin to avoid seeing friends because you cannot be honest with them…then you are doing that thing that partners do…ISOLATING YOURSELF and that is not good for you. Meanwhile your husband has his best buddy EVERY Friday night and NOTHING has changed for him??? And then the asshole is out there watching lingerie football? Come on, ZG, give yourself a shake here, Sweety. EVERYTHING about your situation is slanted in your husband’s favor and NOT in yours? I know I shouldn’t be pushy BUT I think you are just too NICE, Z Girl. I am not your therapist and I don’t live in your marriage BUT I don’t trust your husband AT ALL because he always seems to be worried about HIS NEEDS and NEVER worries about yours?? If you don’t worry about yours…WHO IS GOING TO….with none of your friends knowing, a dufus for a therapist ect ect. Jeez… I just think you carry way too much load and you need to shift some of that burden. Just because you are choosing to stay living with him does NOT mean you have to maintain the status quo. Raise a little Hell ZG. I think it would do you the WORLD of good. All this unasked for advice comes from a place a real concern so take it that way and use only what you need. 🙂 BIG HUG Karen x
PS: mine used to ask me what he should tell people…he stopped AFTER I cleared the way with my version. 🙂
Hi Karen,
I love all your posts and you sound so neat and are so helpful. I do want to add something to your post to ZG. In my opinion, it’s okay to be too nice. In fact, the world needs more too nice people like ZG. I think she is in the process of sorting this all out for herself and she will do it.We are all born with a temperament and it’s interesting to google because it’s really not ever talked about much and it’s a big part of who we are. It very interesting.
I guess I just hate to hear that because its nice to have too nice people. I had a good idea, how about when we go out in public or with friends with are SA, they have to wear a big button that says: ” Ask me about my Sex Addiction”.
LOL, NAP, your last line just cracked me up–there goes the coffee all over the keyboard! (I’m so glad you’re back).Thank you for what you wrote–so sweet. It’s interesting because I think you and Karen both made great points! (And Karen, don’t ever feel like you have to soften what you say for me–I can take it!! God, with the shit I’ve taken, I can definitely take some tough love that comes from a place of REAL concern and caring!!! So thank you!!)
And If I can just play my own armchair psychologist for a minute–I was giving this some thought last night. Part of the reason I think I’m giving my SA so much “leeway” and empathy during his recovery (or at least the recovery he’s attempting thus far) is that I still hold a lot of guilt over how I handled my dad’s alcholism. Mostly I was angry at his behavior. My family didn’t speak up much, so we talked more “about” him (as in venting, complaining), than talking “to” him. He was in rehab for 6 weeks, and I never took a trip down to visit. He relapsed a few years later, and still, as a family, we never really confronted it. I don’t know–I still do feel like I could have been MUCH more supportive in his recovery. And I know I’m not doing myself (or my SA) much good if I’m trying to fix past baggage, but it was just a thought I had last night, and something I’m going to mull over more today.
OH and GRRRR on the note of sleeping like a baby: the night after d-day number 2, my husband was out like a light (on the living room couch). I woke him up SCRYING (thank you, Lexie), and asked him HOW it was possible for him to sleep. He really looked at me like he was bewildered. It still boggles me.
Thanks again, sisters!! BIG HUGS back!!
Hi zg,
I agree with nap in that we are born this way and it is our personality. We are givers and caregivers, kind and caring. However we must be very careful to not get in a relationship with a taker or a person without boundaries, one who tromps all over you. No lie it even says this in my personality profile. So, a relationship with an as or addict will truely be very difficult for us. I day keep the kind caring for oh kids,the sa is not a kid. Save the good you do for people who deserve it.
So back to you predicament. It is as much up to you as it is your sa to travel the path of recovery. He does not appear to be helping you and taking his responsility in this for you. You carry the burden. And as long as he gets away with it, things will never change. There is a.difference between supporting someone and be firm with love, versus being a doormat and standing up for yourself. Sometimes it does mean tough love. Love floraFlora, you are so right on. I think this whole phase of my life is going to make me stronger if I go about it the right way. Thanks for your post!
xoxo Julie
Dear Z Girl,
Nap is right. We all have our personalities and we are what we are. It is wonderful to be nice and kind to people who deserve it BUT it is trecherous with a taker. I don’t know your husband and I know I should keep my hands shut while I am ahead, BUT I feel I know men like your husband, Z Girl. Everything I read, between the lines of your posts ,tells me you need to be very careful. I don’t want him to be able to hurt you anymore than he already has or does?? The only problem with a sweetheart like yourself is you are always looking for the good in people. The cold hard truth is some people don’t have much good in them and your efforts are wasted on them. 🙁 You do NOT owe support and sympathy to people who hurt you repeatedly. Please protect yourself and your wonderful heart. Karen x
I see everyone’s points and I do believe with all of my heart that Karen’s heart is in the right place. Kindness isn’t always pretty. Kindness is love and TRUTH and it doesn’t always come wrapped up in pink bows and ribbons.
I got to know Julia for two days… and I have to say, that as nice as she appears in print, it is even embodied far more in person; she IS one of the kindest, sweetest, gentlest humans i have ever encountered. I think for me, it makes all of this all the more heartbreaking, and for all of us. I think that ALL of us are sensitive, deeply loving souls, or we wouldn’t be here. We need support and we want to give it too, and that is so incredibly beautiful.
Our community suffered an unspeakable tragedy, in the wee hours of October 18, as an affluent man, murdered his wife— and this creeps me out, if anyone remembers my post from two days ago about my fantasy…(posted just hours before this occurred) but he BLUDGEONED his wife with a piece of furniture, before he shot his two sleeping kids, ages 8 and 11 and then turned the gun on himself. The couple was in the middle of a divorce and I understand were also having financial troubles… and… well, who knows what else this tormented soul was doing???
But… people noticed that the husband was acting strangely. People heard things. People saw things. Did anyone DO anything?
no.
They were too busy, “minding their own business” and being “kind.” and now, those poor people, will have to live for the rest of their lives, with this…
why didn’t I? why didn’t I tell someone? Why didn’t I do something? Maybe it wouldn’t have happened… Of course, it is not their fault, and they couldn’t have even begun to imagine that this unthinkable tragedy could possibly have happened. (the last murder in this community was in 1977) But, it did…
So, I would like to applaud Karen for speaking out. I know that in her heart she is terrified for our Julia… we are all terrified for each other and ourselves, as we should be, because many of us are living with mentally ill males… and who KNOWS what they are actually capable of?
And I love you, too, Julia… I don’t think that you have any idea just how incredibly beautiful and fantastic a person, you really are and that ANY (normal) man would be thrilled to call you his wife and partner. You are a very special woman.
I love you all ~
Laurel
Hi ZG,
Another side note, i did not get to write. Was writin the earlier post on my smart phone, and well that takes forever. So the issue with your dad who was an alchoholic.
I know you were saying you felt bad becasue you gave him the cold shoulder and did not go visit him etc. etc. You maybe did not talk to him for years etc.I here you say now that you felt bad about that. I know it is hard to think about and when you think back now you maybe think that i was so cruel, my dad was sick and i did not go visit him and support him. And we cannot go back in time. But at that time i am sure you did what felt right. However no one talked about it, the elephant in the room. And that is how that elephant stays alive in the shadows. Brought out in the open it would come to light and everyone would know, and everyone would hold him accountable. Secrets make things like that tough. You cannot share your pain, you cannot share your struggles and typically as a kid have no one to talk to…so you hold your breath and do as told bite your tongue.
This is how i view it. You dad was sick, he had a disease, which is up to him to seek help and get better. Often times the only way people seek help to get better is by loss, license, job, family, kids etc, and even then it is no guarantee. So it may be the family making a shift no contact, helped to get him better and what he needed to do. By pretending nothing happened no one gets better, and you should feel no guilt for that part of your life. You were doing the best you could at the time, with the info that is shared with you.
But your past story does seem very similar to your present story. Maybe its time to just let it go. Be free with your speach and yourself…never mind having to restrict what you say to whom and when. And you can link it to your past, say about your dad, and the sadness you felt over that, and that you are tired of living lies. This must be really hard for you.
Thats it,
Love FloraP.s. One of the reasons that i decided to leave my h is because he was a taker. And it is a struggle to live day to day with someone like this. They will use you until you die…all with a smile on their face and tell you they love you. I witnessed this for 8 years. He is a taker with his friends, his parents and me. I guess user is a more appropriate term.
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