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I saw our co-parenting therapist yesterday. The one that had supposedly contacted my STBX’s attorney and said she would be willing to testify that I was alienating my son and that STBX should have standard visitation. She denies having done so. It’s hard to know what to believe, but I figure I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt.
Of course, once the new evidence was out there, no way anyone was going to say he should have standard visitation. In fact, she thinks that what little he has will be seriously cutback with temporary orders. (fingers crossed).
We talked about all the years of gaslighting and how I never felt heard by our marriage counselors. Her explanation? “I think they misunderstood your anger.”
??????
I was thinking of Diane all day after that- what she says about female anger not being acceptable in our society and all.
The coparenting therapist knows one of our marriage counselors well and has spoken to her about us since Dday (we signed releases). This marriage counselor has continuesd to see my STBX since Dday and had even written a letter supporting him for the divorce (he fooled her twice- what an idiot). So coparenting therapist probably speaks with some knowledge.
I’m just stunned, though. Why wouldn’t I be angry given what he had put me through? No one ever talked to me about how I felt about his acting out. No one said, “Gee, Teri, you seem really angry. Is there something you need to say to him or we need to talk about?” They instead just made up their own damn minds and decided it was inappropriate. I remember our 2nd marriage counselor told me that I needed to realize how lucky I am and give up my resentment (about how he treated me, finding underwear in his suitcase, his porn use when he was supposed to be watching kids- yeah, I was lucky).
I feel like I am missing something still. This really doesn’t make sense to me. I didn’t press her on it because I wanted time to think and process. But, WTF? All the anguish they put me through- deciding my worrying about his shaving his pubic hair was my control issue, accepting his explanation about why there were condoms in his nightstand when he’d had a vasectomy, constantly focusing on my abandonment, control, trust issues while not challenging him on anything except teaching him how to lie better. They decided to believe him because I was angry about the underwear, the condoms, etc.? WTF!
What am I missing here?
Nothing Teri
It’s misogyny.
Misogyny has a long history in our health systems and medical and therapeutic practices. It is resilient.Thanks, Diane.
He was encouraged to express his anger, BTW, by same therapists, so it wouldn’t build up and cause resentment. And I was given a hard time when I tried to all bullshit on the double standard.
I can hardly speak about marriage counselors because I risk a heart attack due to intense rage. For you Teri, I will risk it 🙂
They SUCK. If any man ever mentions the words marriage counseling to me again I will shoot him. I sat through 2 years ( on and off) of that bullshit. Either Diane is 100% correct or SA`s are such great con artists or both.
I find it incredulous that your anger over condoms and underwear would be dismissed. But, I believe you because every session I attended ended up with me taking the blame no matter what he had done.
I will add that my brother and sister in law went to marriage counseling years ago ( bumps in the road) and my brother found a male therapist/counselor that called him on his BS and held him accountable. My brother was also all in on wanting to save the marriage. They had both stepped off the marriage path and they both wanted it to work. They both put lots of work into it. They also worked together to find a therapist that they were BOTH comfortable with.
I am glad that your co parenting therapist finally gets it, thanks to you.
teri,
vent your anger with us. we understand! until you’ve been through this, there is no way to understand the depth of the anger!
i wonder if there is some deep biological fear of female anger. or if it is purely cultural, sociological…
anyway, their reactions to you are bigger than you, it is not personal and is in NO way a reflection on you. and unfortunately, it is in NO way fair.
you can know that truth, we all can. and it can give us power.
Teri, I think the scary thing about all this is that it shows just how sincere these guys can act. They can charm the hind legs off a donkey, to the point that a nimnull therapist can tell you that you should believe his twisted explanations. They have deception down to such a fine art, and when the so-called ‘professionals’ are fooled, it is just damn crazy-making. I think so many of these therapists are just ignorant of the personality disorders that these guys have, so they stupidly take what the SA says at face value. Just like we did back in the day. I’m so sorry for what you’ve been put through. xoxo
annie,
i agree! i even wonder how it’s possible to do a psych evaluation of these guys. or a polygraph. there are such masters of deception.
Bev, When you step back, it all seems so bizarre. In marriage counseling, it’s supposed to be that both sides take an equal share. But in reality, how can it be that way when one side has a mental impairment? If he were depressed, would that be half my part? And then they go beyond that, to playing the victim so somehow it gets to be all about you? What goes wrong with the therapeutic model to let that happen? And no one ever asked me how I felt about what he did. I still am having a hard time accepting that. I was supposed to just move on without ever talking about it- WTF?
I never vented my anger in therapy, but I also never raised my voice, name-called, used a swear word, anything that would be considered inappropriate. I am sure my nonverbals were angry. And I either hunker down when I am not feeling heard or I keep repeating myself different ways hoping that something will get through. But I generally was not super-cooperative about “taking my share” of anything when my feelings/experience was not being heard. I guess I was probably considered non-compliant.
I remember one time I was told I was not cooperating when I would not agree that getting a punching bag at home. He was already physically intimidating me, and I think hitting a punching bag is pretty activating and can increase aggressiveness (I know there is data to support this). The last thing I wanted was him getting angry with me and then using the punching bag to intimidate me.
I was fine with push-ups, jogging, chin ups, whatever.
Anyway, I made my case, and I remember the therapist trying to convince me that I was the problem.
lisacay, these guys can push you way past your limit. The times I lost my temper (there weren’t a lot, but I admit I did) it was when I was being gaslighted. I would have a legitimate complaint that I tried to voice and instead he would first leave the house for awhile, then he would come home and tell me that there was something wrong with me and he was the victim. And he would usually top it off with “I don’t need this shit. I can do better than you. We should get a divorce.” If I refused to back down at this point, he would keep it up for a couple of days until I either lost my temper or broke down crying and begging him to stop (one time I locked myself in the guest room trying to get away from him). Good memories…
Now I’m really chewing on this:
2nd marriage counselor, when we worked on above dynamic, had us work on Gottman method. Supposedly I was guilty of the harsh setup and using criticism rather than complaints. I tried really hard to make sure there was no anger in my voice, no non-verbals, used the exact phrasing in the book, and I was still accused of doing it wrong. He yelled at me for days about this, told me I had to admit that I intentionally did it wrong. The therapist totally backed him up and would not even listen when I tried to tell her I had been yelled at for 3 days while I was sick in bed. That’s when I stopped going to her.
Then he was told to work on assertiveness, and he came the monster we all know and love today.
By the 3rd marriage counselor, I had figure out on my own not to take his bait, just to stop all conversation and to stop making complaints. BTW, the few complaints I did make during this phase I often cried and sounded hopeless- I know because he secretly recorded them, and I have had the fun of reliving those moments for the divorce.
Wow, Teri, These counsellors seem to be part of the problem rather than part of solution. It must have felt very disempowering to be part of these sessions.
A punching bag? Really? I have limited experience of counselling, but that sounds bizarre to me.
And “the tone of your voice drove me to it” is pretty weak.
I think getting angry is the healthy response to the behaviour you were subjected to. Getting angry, getting out and getting even…
Big hugs,
LynneLord, if it wasn’t for my Heavy Bag, Speed Bag, BOB (ha, not THAT kind of B.O.B. girls!) Punching Dummy, I’d be serving 30 – life for murder. Plus, you should see my triceps these days 😉
You go girl!! Love you Liza 🙂
Punch away… I was boxing with my personal trainer before DDay. I was decent. I`m quick and strong and he was cute 🙂
Hahaha, Liza! You go, girl. I’ve got no problem with a spouse punching away on a bag. I have one now for myself. And it does increase activation for me. I often find myself swearing and/or crying when I get punching.
It’s a different thing entirely to have someone who is angry, aggressive, emotionally abusive, and who has been physically intimidating banging away at it in the house.
Not all may agree with me, and that’s fine. I just was afraid enough of him, and I thought is was my right to feel safe in my own house. There’s more than one way to skin a cat.
Of course it is your right. It`s your house. He can go to the gym and punch away. Gee, maybe he should have done that instead of ” other things”???
He went to Tae Kwon Do 2-3 times a week. You’d think that would be big plenty of punching and kicking.
So, he had Boy Scout meetings (1/week), TKD (2-3/wk), marriage counseling (1/wk), 2 12 Step meetings, one night a week on call, and at least one full weekend a month on call. Plus working full time and monthly evening meetings at 3 hospitals and 2 surgery centers.
And going out with prostitutes and to orgies.
He was never home to use the damn punching bag anyway.
Right?
And I was too needy/dependent/had abandonment issues because I complained.
At least some of the encounters were during “lunch” at work. Others when he said he was going to see “a patient” when he was on call. I suspect maybe some of those 12 Step meetings were cover. Maybe the evening hospital/surgery center meetings? Who knows.
It`s just amazing what they will do to have sex… Imagine if they put half that energy into being a decent human….
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