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Ok girls,
You are so good at translating SAH talk into plain English.
My SAH told me today that:
1) He won’t be ready for a formal disclosure for a long, long time because he doesn’t want to dredge up the past – he’s put it behind him and it’s too painful.
2) That he’s worried that I’ll never get over it (I’ve had many disclosures/discoveries over the past year with the last one being Jan. 6 of this year.
Deb
Translation for #1: he won’t be ready for a formal disclosure for a long time because it will take him that long to make up stuff that he thinks you will believe and the longer he takes the better his chances are that you’ll just forget about it.
As for #2, if he’s so worried that you’ll never get over it, why would he want to drag it out any longer by delaying the whole damn thing. The sooner he tells you the sooner you’ll be able to deal with it. You may never “get over it” but you may be able to “deal with it” as time goes by.
Just my interpretation 🙂
Much love, Claire
Thanks Claire and “For Now”,
Yup – that’s my take, too…..I think his shame is so great, he can’t face it and thinks I might bail if I know everything. A week or so ago, he seemed relieved when I said that I didn’t care if it was 10 or 100 women, the most important part is that he is working on understanding it and preventing it in the future. He started to make a “list” in Jan. and got sidetracked (e.g. decided he didn’t want to go back to the CSAT).
His latest thing is that he says that he is NOT a sex addict, but a love and relationship addict. He said that the “perfect storm” for him is when a weak, needy woman approaches him. When I asked how the CL ads that he responded to – and the prostitutes he went to fit into this model, he says “well – I only answered one CL ad” (in the past, he admitted to two), and the prostitutes were about physical needs. He is so full of it and he may even believe himself. He is “figuring” this whole thing out with his trauma therapist (who is not trained in sex addiction).
He also said that he thought that I asked for a simple disclosure and not a narrative (the “why”) along with it He said that wasn’t part of the deal (always was) and that he didn’t think that I would like or accept why he thinks he did it and that would cause a fight (yeah – I won’t accept responsibility which for sure will cause a fight). What he doesn’t know, either, is that a formal disclosure includes a polygraph.
He is weaving and bobbing like crazy. What I can’t figure out is whether or not it’s the shame of it all – or that he is wants to protect his addiction.
My intuition says that it’s the shame of it all (I do think he’s been sober) – but if he can’t be completely honest with himself, then how can there be recovery?
What I find very sad is that faced with the same dilemna, I would do anything to save our marriage. I would walk on hot coals. He can’t do a few simple things for me to build trust and safety – he is being like an obstinate teenager and it’s really unflattering.
The dilemna that I’m facing is that the CSAT that I trust (he is a sex addict himself) told me that sex addicts hate to be controlled. So – how in the world does a partner who craves safety live with a sex addict that wants to take their good old time facing their demons? It’s a perfect storm for conflict and heartache all the way around.
Deb
OK girls – here’s what his comments are to himself (via E-blaster)….I know, reading his notes to himself are even more crazy-making – but what it does show me is that it is all about him and he really is in the “dodge and blame” game. Not the sign of someone in recovery. Yuck. I really need to keep myself safe.
He writes to himself: Mainly back to diagnosis of past and have told her often that I have forgiven myself and moved on. She agrees (for now but does still want the “full disclosure” but also now the “Why”. – first have heard of this and no way – just seems another way to open “my pandoras box” and rub my nose in the dirt. Going forward don’t ever say again you are looking out for the safety of the kids (based on last year) because we were both equally responsible for that.
Deb, seems like he’s still in extreme denial and really doesn’t get even the basics of the concept of recovery.. humility, responsibility, empathy… So he’s ‘forgiven himself and moved on.’ How nice for him. Sorry, Deb, but he is really pissing me off right now. He’s stuck in his little brick wall. It makes one want to tear one’s hair out and just scream and scream. I’m no mental health expert, but it seems like this guy fits the definition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder to a t. Thinking of you and sending you hugs. xoxo
His loyalty is to himself, and to his addiction/compulsion.
He will protect his right to his secret world whatever the cost, even in “recovery”.#1 – I never plan on giving you a disclosure. I sat that based on his reasons. If he doesn’t want to drudge up the past and wants to put it all behind him… why would he be willing to do it on some distant date?
Tell him you need full disclosure before YOU can even TRY to move past this.
#2 – Trying to make you feel guilty for long term problems related to this.
As for the notes… they say “why disclose the past because it is the future as well”
Ditto what March said. … I’m staying because I am crazy right now but if he pisses me off one time then he is a goner no matter how crazy I am!!
He’s playing you. Do not play. That’s how I got in thiscrazy mess. Letting him mess with my head… Thinking I could be reasonable and logical … Nope!!
Deb, he’s given you NOTHING. He’s not willing to do ANYTHING you need. All along, you’ve had these ultimatums: if he doesn’t agree to my safety list…if such-and-such doesn’t happen at the counselor’s office…if blah blah blah…and he’s NEVER made a concession. I don’t know why you think he’s sober. I don’t. And if he’s white knuckling, he’s going to let go any second. But why wait for that? Every day, he’s showing you how much more important HE is than you are. I don’t know how or why you’re tolerating it. The childhood trauma, etc. explains your impulses, but you’re aware of that. When you’re aware, you can make changes. Those changes aren’t easy; they’re really, really hard, but they’re necessary. You say, I will NOT be treated this way, and you make sure you’re not.
OK girls….he said this weekend that he’s ready to go “full steam ahead” on his recovery. He even wrote me a very loving card with that written on it with some flowers – and booked me a massage.
I could be in denial but I (want to) believe him. I want to believe that he is just scared to face his “stuff” and to give up his addiction. If I just knew that he was active in his addiction (I trust you March) then I would have the strength to kick him out – but he keeps telling me that he is sober and ready to work on his recovery. He’s going to another SLAA meeting this week (this time a Men’s only group).
I think that I need to set a time limit (before I lose what’s left of my sanity) for myself to move on. Set the limit for myself…if he doesn’t show real strides in his recovery by xx date, then he has to move out. His latest thing is that per his own therapist that I should be focused on behaviors, rather than on my “action list”. Aren’t actions behaviors? I said – how in the world do I know what you are doing? You fooled me many times in the past. I guess I can focus on how a person in recovery would be acting – and that’s not what I see much of the time.
He is completely freaked out that I didn’t sleep much last night (I didn’t get to bed until 3am). He said that he would sleep in another room if that helps me. I told him that it’s PTSD and I’m dealing with it.
Girls – if I just knew if he was protecting his addiction or just scared – that would make all the difference in the world. I can wait if he’s headed in the right direction. How in the world do I know?
I agree with Annie…he isn’t showing much humility, responsibility or empathy right now. Although interestingly, he shows much more of that face to face, vs. what he shows in the “notes” to himself.
I hate this stuff – I really do. I just want some peace. I see glimpses of it and then it’s gone.
Thanks for your thoughts on this. Yes, I really think that he has no plans to do a disclosure for whatever reason. I also think that he “thinks” he has his addiction/compulsion under control. He told me last night that there are four things that come together to make him go down that path. When I pointed out that he has gone halfway down that path (e.g. sexting) he says that we will never agree on that one. Very maddening.
Deb
Dear Deb,
I believe it is both — protecting his addiction and fear are both at play. An addict is terrified of giving up the thing that makes them tick. his brain/sexuality/identity are wrapped around an unhealthy view of sex, himself and the world. Addiction is deep and powerful Deb. very very powerful. not in only in his life, but in your marriage and family as a whole. the whole foundation of your life has been ripped out. we don’t “just get over it”.
in order for a new foundation to be laid, what was built around his addiction and secret life, needs to be ground zero. The addict “freaks” at the thought of this. They “freak” at us being on to them and enforcing boundaries that will not let them return to their crack. It is complicated, not straight forward. The addict sends out armies of “little liars” to protect the addiction.
Deb, you need to protect yourself. And i highly recommend a time limit. othewise it goes on forever, unless, they get serious about it. for more than a week, that is.
I said I would give it a year. I have given almost 2. with lttile to no improvement.
I argue against giving him a timeline and here’s why. If you say he has 3 mos to show sincere improvement and he rides the line yet your gut says something still ain’t right then he moves around in the gray areas to argue “but I’ve done a,b and c…..this is improvement, I can’t do it overnight” and on and on it goes. Which at that point you opt for the separation based on feeling something ain’t right. So what I’m getting at is if you’re ultimately going with your gut to decide if he’s being sincere then go with your gut now and put him out and begin the separation. You will not believe the difference it will make having him gone plus you get a “break” from some of the crap for awhile. Just my opinion said with love.
Pam – so you gave it double the time – you hung in there for 2 years? Wow! You gave it your all.
Funny thing about time limits….my SAH said to himself in his notes that he would give me “3 months” to get over it and fulfill his emotional needs. He wrote to himself that he has been gracious in giving me “6 months”. The gall…….really? It just goes to show how truly out of touch with reality they are.
Do you think they could “get over” it if we did what they did? No way – their narcissistic asses would be so out the door and free to pursue whatever tranny/granny/fanny they could find in record speed.
If we weren’t in the middle of it, it would be funny. Hopefully someday it will be.
Deb
For Now – what I was thinking about is giving a time limit in my head…..and not share it with him. My group therapist on relationships suggested this (she wrote the book “Contemplating Divorce”).
So – a secret time limit in my own head.
Deb
Ok that makes more sense. I did that and then stupidly I let him talk himself out of things. But when I put the tracker on his car I told myself he’s out if I catch him anywhere he shouldn’t be. Adult book/video store caused his latest vacay at his parents……and I see NO time frame on him being allowed back. Good riddance for now-no pun intended. Ha!
Deb, you wrote, “if I just knew if he was protecting his addiction or just scared – that would make all the difference in the world.” Honey, his behavior is the same either way. He is actively abusing you, Deb. Please, please quit giving him free rein to hurt you. Take all of the energy you’re spending on why he’s doing this or thinking that and turn it towards YOURSELF. You can only change yourself Deb, that’s a given. Kick his ass out of the house, let him deal with his shit (or not), forget about safety lists, disclosures, couples therapy, get on with YOUR life. Please. Said with love and sadness, Liza
Hi Deb
I was going to say that on the timeline– to keep to yourself. I did. I never told SAH he had a year. Just my personal benchmark. It was a guideline for how much time I wanted to throw at this. there seemed to be some improvement in MAY JUNE of last year. which was my 12 month mark. at that time, i wanted to remain in the marriage.
but then he drove the car of course again. and now I am here. done mode.
I am fairly certain it was JoAnn that asked me to think about what I would tell my daughter if she were in this situation….. That has really made me think. Of course I would tell her to get out …
Hello all,
Well – blow me over with a feather…..he came home at noon today and told me that he could see how upset I’ve been and he wants to do the disclosure. He’s going to call the CSAT. Wow…..finally. He’s also going to a SLAA meeting on Thursday.
He was very nice this afternoon. Told me how amazing I was to put up with his crap and sticking with him. I know the tide will turn soon, so I’m just enjoying it while it lasts.
Deb
Deb,
Saying this with sisterly love, I find your posts all over the place, I can’t even keep up. One minute hes not admitting to even bring a sex addict, then he was going to go away, then no way he’s going to do this or that, then 5 min later he’s totally committed ????????It just all seems wishy washy all the way around, I’m confused (more than usual) and I feel dizzy.
Love ya, Nap
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