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Even I fuck up.
I tried to tell NAP that I wanted to stick an onidea fork in Mummy Dearless’s eye and I deleted the entire topic.
I need a drink.
She is a cruel woman!
I backtracked and got the comments, but I’ll have to recreate the photo of my shoes:
Profile picture of JoAnn JoAnn said 4 hours, 28 minutes ago:
Lately I have been doing some reflecting on my life–kind of contemplating my naval I guess. Maybe at my age it is appropriate to do a little analysis on how I got to where I am. I used to do this a lot, but somewhere along the way my life got hijacked.So, the topic on my brain today is Detachment.
My own experiences have led me to believe that this ‘detachment’ mode that I, and many other Sisters, go into in order to survive, and often, in order to stay, is merely another misguided tactic that only hurts us.
Over the last twelve years I have had the entire gamut of emotions and experiences. In 2002 a MD Psychologist told me how much Larry loved me after I had kicked him out of my apartment when I found his chat history on his computer. I actually used the words Sex Addiction to this Psychologist when I had never heard of it before, nor had I done any research on it. But he poo pooed the idea and told me to put it all behind me and marry this wonderful man who just adored me.
Well, the rest is history, three months after we got married I found the bank statements. I have been through individual counseling, marriage counseling, couples counseling, COSA meetings and more individual counseling. None have helped me at all, although I never accepted the co-dependent lable. I have lived with him and lived apart from him–once for three and a half years and now for over a year.
I have watched Larry stay sober for over six years, heard him lie, act nice, act like an asshole, quit smoking, get diagnosed with severe ADHD and almost die from heart disease. I have listened to the Psychiatrist tell me that Larry has Avoidant Personality Disorder and Alexithymia.I have nursed him through an almost fatal motorcycle accident, recognized his extreme emotional immaturity, loved him, hated him, seriously plotted to kill him and have been tortured with a decade of horrendous staggered disclosures.
And, in recent years I have detached. I detached in order to live with him. I detached in order to keep the peace and make the best of it. And, when he played his stupid card here on the island and the police showed up, I was able to drop him off in Tallahassee with only a suitcase and his computer and not even a backward glance.
But now, after a year, the dust has settled and life is calm and good–well except for some financial worries. And I have had time to think and wonder what the hell I did to myself with all that detachment.
I am a warm, loving, emotional woman.
Detachment made me cold, distant and took my joy for life away.
I am slowly getting it back, and now I remember who I used to be. I am able to experience a wide range of emotions, both good and bad, again. I am able to cry for joy and cry for hurts–my own and others.
I am able to think again.
I am able to live my life without the shadow of Sex Addiction.
And, I am able to deeply feel the absolute disgust for what he did and is doing. I am able to see a man who has no respect for women, who pays young girls, barely 18, money for an hour of their time so he can use them in any disgusting way he chooses.
I had detached not only from him but from what he had done.
Maybe I needed to do that, but I no longer think it is a good thing. I think if we have to detach in order to stay we wind up becoming nothing but a shell of who we are.
Looking back, that price was much too high to pay. ~ JoAnn
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Profile picture of bev bev said 4 hours, 6 minutes ago:
You’re probably too deep for me JoAnn but it sounds like that detachment is being bastardized to mean “don’t get angry, anger is bad….” sort of like don’t shame the “addict”.I think anger is wonderful. I do my best work angry:)
Anyway, detachment allowed you to get rid of (who?). It’s a good thing. I’m sure you did pull away in other areas ( emotionally). He embarrassed the ever loving shit out of you on your beloved island. I think any sane person would detach.
You are a kind, loving, feeling woman and that is what will not allow you to detach forever from things you love ( or people you love).
Now, after you think on your belly button for a while longer ( say thru lunch time) then cover it up and go do something fun.
There just has to be another pair of really cute spring sandles out there somewhere 🙂
Love you bunches…. Really 🙂
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Profile picture of bev bev said 4 hours, 5 minutes ago:
Sorry sandals… iPhone typing sucks…Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of Teri teri said 4 hours, 2 minutes ago:
JoAnn,
I totally get what you mean. I detached, too, in order to stay in the relationship, and I was not fully myself. I feel so much more whole and alive now that I am out of the relationship.Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of JoAnn JoAnn said 3 hours, 59 minutes ago:
Well Bev, ummmmmm….I did order these yesterday:
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Profile picture of Ali Ali said 3 hours, 55 minutes ago:
I think you’re right. We do have to detach in order to stay, and it does rob of us joy. I think each h is on a different place on the spectrum of abuse, but I think each partner is affected horribly. If a partner is being physically or emotionally abusive (especially to the kids), i think it is easier to recommend the partner to immediately leave. I think it gets murkier when the sa is remorseful and really working to “change his life and make things right”. That’s what gets us to hang around and waste years.
Partners didn’t know about or choose this life, and I think there is a process that needs to happen to get to the place that you are at, JoAnn. It sounds nice where you are 🙂Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of bev bev said 3 hours, 54 minutes ago:
See, there is a God. I love them and that is where your focus should be. You have great legs, coral is a hot color and it looks great on you!!Now, find a cute short sundress/skirt to wear with them 🙂
I’m all for introspection and figuring out the hows and whys but sometimes you have to just say Fuck That and go buy shoes ….
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Profile picture of Ali Ali said 3 hours, 45 minutes ago:
Another pillow quote:“Fuck That and go buy shoes”
I like it!
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Profile picture of NAP NAP said 3 hours, 25 minutes ago:
Would that be considered avoidance or detachment?Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of JoAnn JoAnn said 3 hours, 5 minutes ago:
I think it is called responsible economic consumption.Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of NAP NAP said 2 hours, 58 minutes ago:
Yes I think buying the shoes are.Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of march march said 2 hours, 44 minutes ago:
Detachment has only made me colder and more distant with him. Yes, necessary for survival. Fortunately, I’m able to fully engage in most areas of my life and with most people. I no longer keep his secret, and I refuse to let my life revolve around his penis. Or any penis.Men just generally suck.
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Profile picture of diane diane said 2 hours, 37 minutes ago:
but….shoes aside—but aren’t they so fab!—-I think at some point healthy detachment to achieve certain goals can become avoidance or, when we are TOLD to keep doing, maybe also it is oppression and not healthy for us.okay that was a terrible sentence—but it wasn’t the shoes’ fault.
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Profile picture of bev bev said 2 hours, 2 minutes ago:
I think I get what you’re saying. To me it goes back to the “what if they died” scenario. If you were both in a horrible accident and your H died and you had a long rehab journey ahead of you then no one would expect you to anything but traumatized for awhile.So, avoidance or detachment serves a useful purpose for a limited time. It’s similar to the grief cycle.
In JoAnn’s case, she had survived the initial car wreck and made a way for herself to be okay. Of course (who?) wasn’t having that for a minute so he blindsided her again. She had to detach to make it at that point.
I have to detach to do what I think is right for me at this time. I have chosen to get my kids thru school if possible. I have to be careful to not detach from everything. It’s not easy that’s for sure. I also have to let it all go ( avoidance) from time to time. I can’t spend every waking moment entangled in this mess. I have to be able to eat dinner and watch a movie with the whole family and just enjoy it for what it is.
They all priced themselves way out of the ballpark IMO.
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Profile picture of NAP NAP said 1 hour, 50 minutes ago:
I think what I took away from JoAnn really great post is that if we are not careful or have good self awareness we can waste YEARS with these men at our own expense. Not in all cases of course but it can happen. Then, once we are free of them, we actually start to live and grow again.Edit | Delete #
JoAnn’s Thoughts On Detachment (24 posts)
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Profile picture of NAP NAP said 1 hour, 50 minutes ago:
The shoes are really cute btw.Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of diane diane said 1 hour, 45 minutes ago:
NAP, that was really helpful summary.
I mean about what we’re trying to say here, not that the shoes are cute.
but the shoes are cute.
hugs for you Nap, in case you need one or two.
D.xoEdit | Delete #
Profile picture of NAP NAP said 1 hour, 33 minutes ago:
Thanks I need all the hugs I can get Diane. Mummy Dearless took back my silverware (onidea stainless) she bought me as a gift when I moved into my house 2 yrs ago. How petty is that???? She’s still trying to attack me any way she can.Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of diane diane said 49 minutes ago:
But but but,
how did she get hold of it?Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of NAP NAP said 42 minutes ago:
She ‘manipulated’ my daughter into taking it because “it was hers (Mummy Dearless’) and I was borrowing it”. What a @&$#% !Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of Teri teri said 18 minutes ago:
OMG, NAP, you can’t make this shit up. Unbelievable. Did you tell your daughter?Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of NAP NAP said 6 minutes ago:
Yes but she “just did what grandma told her to do” and “why would grandma lie”. She obviously to me (my daughter) was manipulated and was put in a very uncomfortable situation. I don’t think she really wanted to do it.Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of JoAnn JoAnn said 46 seconds ago:
I want to stick a fork in her eye.Edit | Delete #
Profile picture of JoAnn JoAnn said 2 seconds ago:
Mummy Dearless that is.they wrecked Christmas this way too. We need to get serious on this. Your kids seem to think you don’t deserve to ever be considered. I’m upset now, as you can tell. I know you love your babies, and we have to develop a retraining program. R U up to this?
I really just want to let it and her go (Mummy Dearless) because she abuses just me. And I’ve been no contact with her for 2 yrs now literally after she had my brother attack me. I know it’s driving her crazy and she’s getting desperate. I don’t want to pick up the rope or spend any energy on her. It’s not worth it. As fat as my kids go they know I love them with all my heart. They love me too. She didn’t realize she was manipulated much like my brother. If I give my mother any narc supply it will just explode and with my PTSD I cant handle it. So I’m doing what is best for me. My kids are good. It just ashame it has to be this way. I do have great friends and sisters so I’m really fortunate. Plus I’m a pretty upbeat person. Thanks for listening and I think I’m done with her on this, not worth the time or energy. 🙂
I have been mulling over detachment a lot lately. That and co-dependency. I still believe my h is sincere in his recovery attempt. But, some things are becoming more clear now that the initial shock of the whole diagnosis is wearing off. While he’s managed to stop his sexual acting out and acting in for now, the absence of his go-to self-medication has left him a hot mess. He is just so incapable of intimate connection, and he knows it and I know it. Honestly, pretending we were close was SO much easier and in many ways less crazy-making than what we have now. Every day I get closer to thinking I’m finally done.
So, my new hypothesis is that keeping partners busy with their own, albeit bogus, recovery is simply a brilliant stall tactic. Detachment is the same thing. They buy the addict the time it takes, in theory, to work through their FOO shit and gain some scant ability to empathize and connect with other human beings (without the use of their penis). Then, after a couple years of healing on separate paths somewhat parallel with each other, the partner and the addict are perfect for each other. The addict might be just able to pretend to connect just enough to satisfy his partner, who has now beaten every expectation of a true partnership out of herself. She’s so leery of co-dep and being actually attached to someone, she’s nearly as inhuman and broken as the addict. They can talk the 12 step speak together and live lives completely separate from one another, while pretending that is intimacy.
I can barely stand this recovery b.s. anymore – and again, I actually think my husband is trying. Sometimes I think it would be easier if I’d just “behave” and distract myself with all the support groups and recovery work the co-addict school of treatment peddles.
I took the red pill. Part of me wishes I hadn’t but there’s no going back. My problem is, just like you point out JoAnn – I like my humanity. I like being attached to the people in my life. I like depending on trusted friends and family and I like that they depend on me.
I’m not sure there’s a way to navigate that truth with a recovering SA in your life. I thought I could do it, but it’s taking a toll on me that I don’t plan to pay much longer.
JoAnn, that’s a question I’ve struggled with from day one. Logically the theory of healthy detachment from outcomes is a healthy adult perspective in relationships. That’s in a logical and healthy relationship. Trying to apply logic in any relationship with someone who covertly controls your access to the facts about the reality of the relationship is total mindfuck. We are alternately told our attachment and support is critical and at the same time that it’s pathological. There is no right choice.
Detaching is a survival skill. That’s how I see it. It’s for your own emotional survival. If you need skills like that to endure your relationship so be it. But I think it’s foolhardy to believe that a relationship that requires you to detach to get through day to day is ever going to be one that nurtures you. It’s like living in seige state, you can stay alive, but never go out without your weapons and armor. Frankly, SJ wasn’t worth that effort. I wouldn’t fight for ANY of these cheaters, I don’t care WHAT their diagnosis is.
They didn’t fight for us, did they?
I have to comment on Autumn’s post … pretty profound. For me gets to the issue at hand…… and then there is the shoes!
Not Zappo’s, I found a better place.
One of my friends here on the island sent me an invite to join Rue La La. They have absolutely the best prices on shoes and clothes and accessories. I know as I have double checked everything.
Really nice high end stuff at decent (not cheap) prices.
Now, I can’t afford a $40,000.00 Hermes handbag at the low, low price of $20,000.00, but I certainly can afford $500.00 shoes for less than $100.00. And, I think they look just as good as the $4,000.00 shoes that are on sale for $2,000.00.
If anyone wants more info just check out this link:
~ JoAnn
I’m going to copy Autumn’s post….. It’s one of those we find on this site at times that just sums everything up. Thanks for that Autumn.
I use rue la la…. I haven’t in awhile but it’s pretty popular and I’ve had good experiences with them..
I can’t afford the handbag either but I can dream 🙂
JoAnn, I’m glad you are feeling more like yourself now. Spring is on the way and you have beautiful new sandals and a smile to match.
Love,love the shoes! Coral is the color right now. Looks really good with a suntan.
I have detached. I know I do not want to ever be with drahole. I am working on reclaiming my life.
At one point, when drahole was at Weiss for a poly, I said to his therapist…if I had to rely on a poly to see if my h is telling the truth or not, there is something wrong. That just wasn’t for me. I deserve better than a pathological liar.
I don’t lie. Neither should my partner.
Autumn, that was such a great post. What they did becomes almost secondary to what they actually are, no matter how much ‘recovery’ they have under their belts. And I don’t even mean that in an unkind way. I think my SA is trying, like yours is. But there’s just this empty feeling I get when I talk to him. There’s no ‘there there.’ There’s a facsimile, but the dots just don’t connect. After two years of recovery, the stage play still goes on, and I really don’t think that will change. xoxo
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