- This topic has 89 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hmm…I don’t think it’s helpful to tell someone they are a lost cause, not in so many words. But I wish to heck someone would tell ME if the “project” (salvage mission) that has tried to suck the life out of me is a waste of effort. Please, just tell me THAT instead of eking it out as years go by and you end up with the same approximation of a disordered husband. The prospects are a bit depressing to me, I’m afraid. But whatever, I just would welcome the truth for once…
The problem is, you’re (we’re) asking the farmer whether his prize winning cash cow should be put out of it’s misery. Of course the farmer is going to say the cow is doing ‘just fine’ (as long as the money keeps rolling in). I’m not talking about Dr. Minwalla here, but the whole SA “recovery” industry as a whole.
Daisy: bingo. I don’t know if they’re all exactly conscious of that, or if it’s just a natural byproduct of the industry. MY practice has a whole machine built up around the issue and it just feeds itself. Institutionized continuum. I sound a little bitter, I guess, and I do think I’ve received some genuine help (especially from the group work. WITH feedback, thank you very much). But I do not think they have all the answers, as much as they promise that they do. That’s what I distrust. Our csats are very convinced that they have the recipe, and all we need to do is keep coming in and keep going to 12 step meetings.
Cat:
Perhaps he does feel like a lost cause, but I wouldn’t really know. He isn’t really that self-aware, from what I can tell, at least not in a way that he can/wants to try to communicate. Not with me anyway.Mine was defeated and completely non self aware and Minwalla changed that. I don’t know if that helps you Jenny but it’s my experience which is all I can speak of.
Bev, I forget. Did your H know he had FOO issues? By that I mean was he aware of the impact of FOO issues on his behaviors and personality? I ask because my H is totally in denial that any of his FOO issues (evil narc mom, adopted, dad died when he was 10, bi-racial and his mom hates black people etc.) have any impact on him whatsoever.
Daisy, he knew about his family but he had NO clue it was affecting him. I had insisted a year and a half before Dday that he see a therapist because I thought his behavior was loony and it was from unresolved issues ( FOO). I did not know about the sex shit at that time…..
He has since ben more aware of the impact and that living in that family dynamic caused him to isolate and he was exposed to soft porn ( cinemax) at an early age. His “biggest thing” as far as SA goes was phone sex. He paid to be degraded. He felt worthless and undeserving. He always said he didn’t deserve me. He even said that in MC while he was blaming me for everything under the sun. The FOO therapist has done exceptional work.
Catherine, he was quiet and humble. I didn’t know at first if it was an act or what. Lili ( PoSARC) and Minwalla had warned me that the therapy was so intense that he would need awhile to “reintegrate”. He threw himself into groups and found a sponsor and attended meetings. It took a good month or so before we talked in depth about his thoughts on the whole thing. To be honest, I did not want to hear it and I had nothing positive to say to him so I was fine with it. One boundary I made and have kept is there will be NO discussing SA or him unless I want to.
I don’t ask a lot of questions regarding his therapy. I mainly watch what he does. Nap said that long ago and I believe her. I watch and listen more than I talk or ask. I guess that’s why I am so mouthy on here 🙂
Daisy I missed your post. My husband glorified his family. You would have thought they were the freaking Waltons and his oldest brother was John Boy. This despite the fact he went to a brothel with his 2 oldest brothers. He now sees his family as they truly are ie a bunch of dysfunctional people with little if any boundaries, an egotistical and maniacal father and a totally inappropriate mother. It cost a lot of money to get to this point.
By the way he doesn’t use his FOO as an excuse for his actions but it did help him understand why he is the way he is and just how sick his family is.
I get the whole FOO issue thing but I never understood how that translates into hookers and lying to your wife. There is definitely something disordered about the whole lot of them. I don’t know if any amount of therapy can change the fact that your H gets stressed out/horny/tired/angry/happy and decides to screw a hooker….It’s just downright weird.
Cat, my H definitely doesn’t think his family is the Waltons! He knows his mom is a crazy evil bitch, he just doesn’t think that has anything to do with why he thought it was acceptable to spend thousands of hours on porn and thousands of dollars on strippers. He wouldn’t know emotional intimacy if it walked up and bitch slapped him across his face but that has nothing to do (in his mind) with the fucked up way he was raised. He tells me he doesn’t know why he did what he did, he just knows he felt bad about himself and this was a way to keep that feeling at bay. He has no clue why he felt bad about himself when he had a wife who was constantly telling him how wonderful he was and two kids who looked up to him as a true role model. He threw that all away but doesn’t know why. I would send him to Minwalla in a heartbeat if I thought he would come home like Bev’s husband. Will it last? Who knows but it sure as hell is better than living with what they are pre-Minwalla!
Has Penny’s H had a polygraph? I can’t remember. Hope so.
Problem is Jo’s husband was a “success story” for 7 years — yet it all turned out to be fake. Sometimes the ‘recovery changed man’ persona is simply the new mask they adopt after having their former one ripped off.
That is exactly right. My thought is I have my youngest in 7th grade if I can get a few good human years then I will have my kids old enough to get thru whatever comes our way. I don’t have any interest in a BF right now so I’m okay…….we’ll see.
My little Grandma used to say a leopard cannot change its spots. It is an old, maybe corny saying, but like all sayings have a truth to them. I’ve seen the changed, crying, humiliated man mask so many times. And I bought it so many times. I think they can maybe modify behavior, but they can’t change WHO they are. My heart and my sanity can’t take any more chances. I really do wish him well. I hope he can get to a semblance of normalcy, but I am done. 8 years of this is all I can do. Maybe I am too weak or too selfish, but I am so heartsore and weary. I just don’t have it in me to trust him again. Or forgive completely the fucking trainwreck he has made our family. 🙁
Also, being married to someone who will need a polygraph test every 6 months to make sure he is being honest, is a farce of a marriage. Just sayin’
It’s a farce of a marriage the minute you find out they were unfaithful once. You have to decide for yourself ‘are you better off with him or without him’ . Only you can decide that. I don’t think you are being unreasonable or weak or selfish Monique. I think you have had enough and I don’t blame you at all.
I find myself counting down the days til my daughter graduates high school and my son is older. Maybe I’ll make it and maybe I won’t.
Daisy my husband says the same thing. I can intellectualise the whole FOO thing too but it doesn’t mean I get it.
catherine, yes, it may be too soon to tell what the long-term impact might be on my h. I think I put a lot of hope in this program, but I can see that was wishful thinking. We both feel more helpless than ever. I cancelled my registration at the partner’s intensive. I decided a vacation would help me more than hearing about my trauma and feeling ripped open about it once again. I don’t know what is next. Honestly, I feel a bit traumatized by this experience. I do think Minwalla gets the partner experience, so I give him all that kudos for that. Someone on here wrote about the recovery industry, and I think there is merit to questioning how we continue to support therapeutic strategies with no known benefit because we so desperately want to have hope. And it does indeed become self-serving for the providers. I got the sense from Minwalla that we were just starting on the long road of intensives, and workshops, and this and that—all with the disclaimer that my h’s prognosis was terrible. So why would I continue to invest in his programs if his prognosis is so poor? I don’t get it. I spoke to Minwalla on the phone today, and voiced my concerns. He seemed a bit defensive at first, but he agreed that maybe he didn’t support my h enough- that he “wounded him” in the final appointment and that he would call him and try to shore him up and stabilize him a bit. He also suggested inpatient psych treatment- and honestly, I’m pretty sure more therapy- especially inpatient psych therapy is not the answer here. I don’t know what is, but I got the sense Minwalla was grasping at straws. I think he got that he might have pushed this too far without adequate support, and perhaps he will be more careful in the future. I really think it’s somewhat irresponsible to open up someone to despair, and then tell them to find someone else- but with no recommendations- who can help them put back the pieces. I don’t want to be in that position myself, so I am not going to the partner intensive, as much as I would love the comraderie of other women who are walking in the same moccasins.
As far as forgiveness goes, I really found that place of forgiveness in the fake recovery phase. It took a long time. It wasn’t a switch that was flipped. It was a slow uncoiling of fear and mistrust. I believed that he was there for me, that he had earned my forgiveness, and, of course, that made the fake recovery all the more devastating, and made a mockery of my forgiveness. It took me 3 years before I was willing to be sexually intimate with him again, but I pushed through that. It took me 3 years before I was willing to put my arms around him, to have him hold my hand. But I pushed through all of that because I believed that he deserved it. He didn’t, as you know, but I learned I am capable of finding a place of forgiveness in me and for that I am grateful. I wasn’t sure I had the capacity to forgive, and I was so grateful to see that I did, even if it was undeserved. It is a slow process, it doesn’t come easy, it doesn’t mean you aren’t wary, it doesn’t mean you forget, it doesn’t mean you approve…it only means that you no longer think your partner owes you anything more for the pain they have caused and you start from ground zero treating each other with respect as human beings who want and need to feel loved. I have no clue how I can ever get to that place of forgiveness again.Jo you are one special lady. I’m so sorry you have been disappointed time and again. Why not make your holiday destination an exotic one. Australia?
Dear Catherine, thank you for that. Australia? I’d love to go there. I’ve been as close as the Cook Islands. 🙂
Maybe, at some point down the road, I’ll consider the partner intensive, but right now, I’m not feeling it.What about Calgary, Jo? very exotic indeed!
Joking aside, I appreciate reading your story of forgiveness and rebuilding. I think it’s really insightful when you describe forgiveness–“it only means that you no longer think your partner owes you anything more for the pain they have caused” I think that’s a good thermometer for me. “the slow uncoiling of fear and mistrust”–also a helpful image. And I want to honour the way you pushed through these spiritual challenges. I’m sorry that you aren’t very confident you can get there again. I understand completely. Marriage isn’t supposed to be a 24/7 challenge to the resources of your humanity. It just isn’t.
I know it may not be of interest at this stage, but I am in a relationship with someone now for two years. I still wonder at this discovery that love isn’t a giant make work project. And that someone makes the effort to love me without expecting a parade for offering simple kindness and basic respect. I truly loved my husband and probably still do. He just didn’t really exist. The man who pretended to be my husband turned out to be someone so damaged he was incapable of mutuality in honesty, fidelity, respect, affection, intimacy, passion, love, honour. His healing journey was a full time job if he wanted to take it. He didn’t. He just wanted me to put up with a horrible life and not mention it.
Each of us must decide what our life will be about, and how we will be good stewards of ourselves. We can only do what we must do in order to live with ourselves truthfully.
Sending you Light and much affection
Diane.
- The forum ‘Sex Addiction Treatment Center And Counselor Reviews’ is closed to new topics and replies.