What if he hit you?

It does. Marriages should be built on trust and respect.

nap and bev, you are both right and you are both awesome. 🙂 i had aha moments with both your posts.

It’s imperative that we all know we CAN indeed leave — that we have this option, whether we consider ourselves to be in abusive relationships or not. I hope I didn’t confuse anyone about Bonnie’s message.

Although, I would like to describe more in depth, while here, about why the advice I spoke about is unhelpful from what I have learned.

“Just leave him” is obviously a very common response many abuse victims and survivors have frequently heard. Many of our well-meaning family, friends, loved ones, acquiaintences often don’t know what to say or the best way to help. There’s also outsiders who easily pass judgement on us, when they don’t even know in the slightest what abused women go through, especially when it’s inflicted by sex addicts. As we all know, it’s complex and not that simple.

Prolonged abuse has already reduced the victim to believe she is nothing, to begin with. The abuser has convinced her she’s worthless, unlovable, at fault, and deeply flawed. Emotional abuse can make even the strongest and most intelligent woman believe she’ll never survive if she leaves.

Staying is often a survival strategy. The fear can be extremely paralyzing. It’s also a trauma reaction. When DV victims are repeatedly told oversimplified “leave him” advice — even when it’s out of pure love and care — it in itself invalidates the trauma and fear that is part of ongoing DV. It ignores many powerful reasons that keep the victim emotionally, psychologically, physically trapped in the relationship.

Unfortunately, this can lead to more negative beliefs and thought patterns. It can make the victim feel judged and alone. It can add to her already low self esteem, increase feelings of shame and helplessness, and she may further internalize the blame the abuser already puts on her — as if her actions or inactions are the “problem”. While unintentional — this can send her the message she gets what she asks for, implying to her if she stays, she’s to blame for further abuse. It can also cause her to feel ashamed of her own victimization and trauma reactions, both during and post trauma, as it dismisses and denies the validity and reality of their impact. All of these things, either on their own or cumulative, ultimately place her in a position — where she is mentally/emotionally less able to leave.

If heard too frequently enough, without proper useful advice or support to balance it, it may cause the victim to regret opening up to people about the abuse, stop seeking help, withdraw from friends/family, and shut down as a coping mechanism to prevent future pain. At worse, she may feel she has no option but suicide.

That’s why it’s important, and I hope to raise awareness where I can. Because not a lot of people realize the deep and profound effect it can sometimes have on abused women — actually undermining their ability to leave.

I feel the need to add something here. I don’t know why.

I truly understand the dynamic of the ‘battered woman syndrome”. I did volunteer work for the abused women’s shelter and went to the classes and heard all of this discussed. They also said a women usually calls the shelter and/or shows up the third time before she is able to make the break permanent. They also said that a woman may stay until the partner turns his abuse toward the children. I get that.

The sisters that come on this site for help are not battered women in that particular vernacular. There is a big difference between ” my husband is punching me” and ” my husband is cheating on me”. Sometimes the two collide….

No one on this site is yelling or berating or insisting that a woman divorce her partner/husband.

Victoria is having a horrible time leaving her boyfriend of 3 years ( I think it’s 3 but I’m not sure). She has taken the steps to move in with her parents and get that distance from him. She has suffered and is still struggling to make progress.

Victoria is young, bright, articulate and educated. No one wants to yell at her to “just leave”. But at the same time we want her to go farther and push herself to be the girl that she truly is. She is still upset that he bought her crappy perfume and went off to play basketball with his buddies. All any of us want is for Victoria is to find the courage to take the final step.Her BF is clearly unable to be a true partner for her. Their relationship is toxic for her.

Any advice to her is simply to help her not waste the rest of her beautiful life on him. She would make such a great wife and mother to some deserving man someday.

If she is not ready to cut off the relationship and she still hopes that he will come through for her then I support her through the trouble ahead.

I still say that Victoria should leave the guy and try to go on with her life. I don’t say that mean. I don’t say that like it is easy. I say that because I care and Victoria could possibly have a shot at happiness. If she remains with her boyfriend then she will never have a chance at happiness. I would say the same thing to my own daughter.

Victoria, I truly believe that you should get this guy out of your life. You have given him so many chances and even made him pay you ( monetarily). He is not in any real type of recovery and I do not want to see you posting that you caught him with a stripper when you are 35 and have 3 kids…..

You can take my concern as it is offered ( as true concern), or you can get angry with me and tell me why I am not being helpful.

You will never get better with him still in the picture and he won’t either.

I hear you Bev. IMHO, the beauty of the ‘Hood is that here we call a spade a spade. And that’s damn hard to do when you’re wearing kid gloves.

I can say that in all my 20+ years of arresting family violence suspects (usually men but some have been women) that verbal abuse and physical abuse go hand in hand. There are some who only verbally abuse but just about all physical abusers also verbally abuse their victims as well. The victims are mentally and physically beat down to the point that they believe what they hear-not good enough, no one will ever want you, if you tell or leave you will be beaten again and/or killed. I’ve arrested abusers who assaulted their victims because they burned dinner, got home late from work, didn’t clean the house, were caught talking to the opposite sex, caught with another person or wouldn’t give in to sex. You name it and they were beat up for it.

Most told me they saw their mom beat by their dad. I tell the ones with kids that they are sending the message to the male children that this is how women are to be treated and the female children learn that being beat is part of marriage. Just about all abusers swear to never do it again yet it keeps happening. Many victims are shocked I call it as it is when I tell them it probably started verbally then it escalated to a push or a shove then escalated to a punch in the face, mouth or eye to a broken bone or knocked unconscious. They nod in agreement and say “Officer, that’s exactly what has happened.”

There’s a loyalty of sorts to the abuser, a need to be “loved”, financial dependency or the inability to see that they CAN make it on their own.

Education and exposure is key. It’s ok to say I don’t deserve to be mistreated, abused or disrespected. My heart breaks for these victims. It’s a cycle that needs to be broken. It CAN be broken. I rarely cut any slack on abusers. Someone has to go to jail. If I leave the abuser there he will abuse more aggressively after I leave because the victim called 911 or their fight was loud enough for a neighbor to call 911. There’s an automatic 24 hr hold on arrestees who go to jail for family violence for a “cooling off” period. They can’t bond out until 24 hrs has passed. It’s up to 72 hours if the injuries are severe enough. I ask for high bonds on some to ensure they can’t get out for awhile, if at all, until the trial. One magistrate refused bond because my report was so detailed explaining that the arrestee stated to me he will “get her for this” when he got out.

It’s never their fault to hear them tell it. And it makes me sick.

it seems to me that victoria was speaking in general terms and not about her specific situation. she had some very intelligent insights into how the mind of an abused partner can react to well meaning advice.

frankly i’m getting tired of hearing the advice – LEAVE – GO NO CONTACT – being given to others from people who aren’t leaving, who are going no contact.

EVERY one of us is abused. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US, to varying degrees, yes, but EVERY one of a victim of abuse. i mean come on, we all have severe PTSD, come on!!!! if you believe somehow that your situation is different because your H is ‘behaving,’ or that you have something worked out financially or domestically that somehow erases the fact that you were/are abused, then you are kidding yourself.

i don’t personally believe it is the right of any sister, brother mother father therapist doctor to tell a woman she has to stay, or to tell a woman she has to leave.

i respect that others have different paths. our healing has less to do with what we do with our husbands. and more to do with what we do with ourselves. and that has nothing to do with COSA POSA or SOS. that is my belief. mine.

i’m saying this, and i’m LEAVING. i’m ACTUALLY doing it! not just talking about it! not just telling other people to do it!for me leaving is the ONLY way to truly say that the behaviour is unacceptable. for me, not necessarily for someone else.

leaving is hard work sisters, just ask teri, pam, diane, joann, bonnie… it’s a lot easier to sit around and talk about how other people should do it.

I’ve been thinking about this subject a lot lately. See if this makes any sense to you. I may not have every last detail right, so if I am off, let me know.

Oxytocin is a hormone that promotes bonding. It’s released when you have a baby and are nursing so you bond with your baby. It is also released in response to stress.

When you think about it, that makes a lot of sense. You may be more likely to survive if you reach out to other people. But what if the only people you are around are actually hurting you?

I’m thinking that oxytocin plays a role in those stronger than normal “trauma bonds” and Stockholm Syndrome. Also in making it harder for battered and abused women to leave the abuser. In PTSD, everything gets so messed up- does anyone know what role oxytocin plays, if any, in PTSD? In PTSD, people feel disconnected from family, friends, and community. Oxytocin has been suggested as a way to help with that. (Personally, I think people listening without judgement and supporting the trauma victim unconditionally would go a long way, but I supposed that’s not likely to happen any time soon).

Also wondering if unconsciously men have been exploiting this phenomenon to keep women and kids in line. If they abuse, not only are we afraid so we try to behave accordingly, but we also are emotionally more bonded to them. As long as they don’t go too far, I supposed, and give us PTSD. Does that make any sense? Maybe kind of a leap.

But the difficulty in leaving is so common that there has to something going on. And to me it makes sense that it is an adaptive response gone haywire from the abnormal environment. Usually you would want to reach out- especially to your mate who is supposed to be your protector.

That’s a good point, Lynn. The most dangerous time for an abused woman is when she leaves. So staying in that sense is protective. It’s like the whole system is set up to perpetuate the cycle of abuse. Kinda scary to think about that way, really.

Teri I think I have a shit load of oxytocin in me.

Discussing DV today, reminded me I never replied to responses in this thread.

Nope, it wasn’t an indictment of SOS – this online community has played a pivotal role in the healing journey of many partners, both in immediate crisis and long-term. I was sharing information I have learned from DV organizations, programs and services, who in the last decade have all shifted to a trauma-informed approach — equally applied to all forms of abuse, not only physical.

I was addressing in a broad general context common myths and narratives about domestic violence, which often erase the context of the victim’s life, effects of trauma, and other influences. Women who don’t leave are often unfaily judged for making poor decisions, viewed as somehow responsible for the abuse or for not preventing it, and stigmatized as masochists, stupid, or weak. Both “just leave” and “why does she stay” is a real problem that exists in the world – especially with family and friends. It doesn’t have to be in the form of yelling either, “just leave him” can be in the most loving and gentle manner. However, the pressure and the lack of understanding can cumulate with negative outcomes. Emotional safety is just as important as physical safety. While I don’t have the stats for all countries, I know in the UK, 500 women a year commit suicide from domestic violence — 10 per week.

Trauma-informed support is not the same as COSA & S-Anon. They are polar opposites. One is helping the victim identify the abuse and actually leave, considerate of her trauma and psychological vulnerabilities as to not impede her progress and to maximize her chance of leaving; the latter is not in any capacity. Effective, trauma-sensitive, solution focused vs. completely ineffective, denial increasing, powerless orientated, and harmful.

Empowerment and compassion does not equal lying, minimizing, or adopting the abuser’s bullshit. I never expected, nor would want anyone to say to me what Bev suggested: “I am sure deep down that he loves you, he is really trying to recover, please give him another chance, attend S-Anon”. Clarifying this, because it’s the entire opposite of what I meant.

Trauma-informed means engaging and supporting in a manner that empowers and consciously avoids retraumatization. It involves understanding how the consequences of abuse, presence of trauma reactions, and PTSD symptoms impact the beliefs, feelings, emotions, thoughts, behaviors, and capacities of victims/survivors in ongoing abusive relationships. It acknowledges the intensely powerful and conflicting dualities that keeps the abused women in a state of confusion and shame — about herself, her relationship, and her abuser. It’s careful to avoid replicating dynamics of abuse and prior trauma, as they can trigger, compound, and intensify negative feelings which are part of the legacy of trauma and abuse. The DV field adopted this philosophy, because it’s more helpful than traditional approaches that were often found to exacerbate suffering.