“When Your Lover is a Liar” by Susan Forward

Thanks for the tip! Will read it to understand my past and sharpen my red flag skills for my potential, next, God love him, partner!! 

And to add…the whole co-dependent thing they say we lose ourselves or that we glaze things over or we are nto feeling our feelings…blah blah blah. But for me when i read these books I learned on people that I had not idea existed or could be this way. For me part of what we have gotten ourselves into, is not because we are codependent, but because we never knew anything like this existed or that there are people out there like this. That is a huge wake up call. The second huge wake up call is when you are reading the pages and you received validation for how you feel, and how and why you feel this way in your relationship. Because you are dealing with someone who is lying to you, however you did not know it.

Teh realization that its not me its you (the SA)!! Its not me it really is you, you stupid H.

Marriage is designed to develop co-dependencies. We are to lean on each other, be the soft place to fall, help each other make it through the night, forgive each other, believe the best about the person when they don’t believe it themselves, etc etc. The Sanon and Cosa people simply use that reality to blame the spouse and haul her into their bankrupt model of addiction treatment that doesn’t even work.

What’s the first thing a counsellor asks after meeting a couple with problems: “Would you like to try and work through these problems? Are you willing to try compromises? etc. It is NORMAL to be co-dependent in a marriage. It’s NOT normal to be betrayed, lied to, deceived, conned, used, and blamed. THAT is the aberrant behaviour that creates a situation in which women are emotionally, spiritually and physically abused.

For most women, it is NOT helpful to begin therapy with a co-dependent assessment. You are being groomed to become co-dependent in an addiction treatment model that needs co-dependent women to make it work, and one that has terrible success rates.

Please read Dr. Barbara Steffens book for a clear explication of how the same traits labelled co-dependent by proponents of a co-dependent model of treating the SA are just as easily and more accurately named as symptoms of PTSD. It is still possible to work on your marriage without becoming a co-dependent patsy.

What you did, JOs, was try to find a way to survive, try to find a way to be safe. But I’m not talking just to Jos. I’m talking to everyone who has a religious tradition. Give yourself some credit. Don’t give yourself away again to a program that does not let your life actually count. You are not a derivative story from your husband’s addiction. You have your own story and your own experience. Don’t allow them to interpret yours through his.

I understand the slippery slope, but it’s a very hard landing.

And yes, many of these service providers have a religious base. This is not surprising because the treatment of women in the program resonates with the treatment of women in the theology.

That’s my opinion. And after 50 years of a lived faith, 25 years in ordained ministry, two masters degrees, and an SA husband, its an informed opinion.

That’s the first time I’ve shared what I do for a living. And I’ve done so because it’s time. We woman have got to grow up spiritually and take responsibility for the meaning of our life in God (if that what we profess to have). There is no redemptive value in sacrificing the truth of your experience on the altar of his sex addiction treatment model. None.

Well this ought to make me good and unpopular for a while.

Hi Diane,
I like what you wrote and I’m glad you wrote it. I apologize for all the swear words I’ve written. I agree marriage is a healthy co dependency, if there are lies, deception, a secret life then there is no marriage, in the sense of the word. Thank you for sharing yourself with us.
Love, your friend, Nap

Dear All,

First wanted to say hi – and if you were wondering why I fell off the face of the planet, well first is because I was travelling and had no real access to internet, and 2nd, we have now internet monitoring at office, so I have stayed away. will post when I can. will be less frequent for awhile.

Diane, I wanted to say a big thank you for sharing your ministry role, I can’t imagine what you are writing making you unpopular. So often Diane, this process as a wife has made me feel worthless and unheard so many times–As long as the precious marriage survives, who cares what happens to the female? I could be dead and left in the gutter, raging with STD’s, as long as I stay married and “honor” my vows. I feel that is the prevailing attitude. I literally feel that way still. as long as all is normal, I follow tradition as wife/mother, no matter what my spouse does or disease he contracts (hey if I were giving it to him the way he liked he wouldn’t go outside the nest, right? must be ‘Me” too (barf) — we are “good” wives. Are we really? according to whom? A man would never be expected to stay with us if we returned the same behavior, eye for eye, type of thing. We would be “bad mothers” “sluts” “whores”. While they are “just being a man.” It makes me want to shake my fist at heaven, say why don’t you do something to save so many beautiful women and mother’s? Sorry Diane, but I feel let down to the core. Even by Heaven. by the courts as well. I know that it’s not right, but it is my feeling. I feel very trapped in the marriage, as divorce, leaves me and my daughter in more danger than married. In my opinion anyhow, so I stay. Women’s lib may have bought us the power to vote, and equal pay, but we are treated as much lesser value than a man. too bad too, we keep the planet going. just my view.
thanks for light and love

Diane… I have always been really frustrated with the ‘gotcha’ that comes when you admit that you tolerated ANYTHING in your marriage. Well shit howdy, Benjamin Franklin said to seek a spouse with your eyes wide open and then after the wedding keep them half shut. As a Christian woman I have always felt comfort in trying to give more than I expected to receive. If my husband didn’t want sex, and I dragged him to fruitless counseling, it didn’t seem right to blow up my kids family cuz Mama wasn’t gettin’ any. I felt it was prudent of me to wait till they were more or less out of the house. Obviously I have more knowledge now, but I still think that my inaction was a loving response to someone that I thought totally had my back and was so great in many ways and that I had married for better or worse. Better or worse, but not betrayal.

Hi Pam-C,
don’t ever apologize for having words with God or about God. Until we release God/Mystery/Source/LIght/ etc etc, from the patriarchal wickedness that has diminished this great faith, we will also be diminished and lack all that there is for us.
Glad you’re back.

Yes, Lexie, I have felt free to let it fly here. And I still do feel free, so if that’s going to screw up somebody’s head, well, they are forewarned. And I have loved you Lexie from the beginning of it all on MTASA. Thank you for letting me be me.

NAP honey, we’ve come too far to start editing now! Say what’s on your heart. I’ve said it already myself.

BAck to the original point of the post. “When your lover is a liar” don’t accept his addiction, PD, or dysfunction as a framework for understanding yourself. You are a precious and unique creation. You are not the sum total of your relationships. You have agency. Deal with your own shit, but don’t swallow his or his therapist’s.

lots of light still,
D.

Hi All,
Diane, thank you for sharing. I always had that feeling you were someone special or important, of course we arell are special and important, but your profession does not surpirse me. You are/always have been good with words.

Jos…interesting what the support/therapist person said. That a good amount of the population has co-dependent traits. I totally agree. There is nothing wrong with me, i just need to catch myself if these things take over…i do too much, accept someone who is not doing their fair share…etc. (And that is where boundaries come in.) I have written that those were my thoughts, and feel validated now having heard that from a professional. And as diane said a marriage is a sharing/a dependency so to speak. And we do learn to rely on one another. I totally agree that these groups almost groom a codependency in a way…that is how i felt when i participated anyway. I felt that my inner self was beaten down more by what they told me and how they said i should be and act. Whish is interesting since this is how we got here in the first place, and they lay it on more. Some of how I feel the checking, the doubt, the anger, the fear…are all normal feeling of how to deal with type of betrayal and should not be dismissed. I actually still get the cosa email prompts for meetings…like how to deal with the fear…FEAR is there for a reason!! It really is. This si your bodies normal reaction to betrayal. So if you choose to try to find a way to “get rid ot it” or make excuses for it…then so be it. But the fear is real….because it could truely happen again and that is what your body is telling you. I do not agree with glazing over our bodies reactions to a terrible situation. (that would be creating co-dependency to a higher degree just as Diane wrote).

I think in the end we would all be really surprised about who and what we all are..what we do..where we live…how we live. It would be fun to visit and see all of our sisters in real life one day 🙂

Love,
Flora

Hi Jos,
Your h would have appear to be jealous of your faith, in that he felt he was important than your relantionship with god. I am not very religious but you following your faith is indeed helping and healing you. And that i you spending time doinmg what you want. A snotty remark i could think of to the h about that is …..if he had spent the time inputting into his marriage the time he spent pursuing hookers or porn….you would be married today. However the really really big difference here …is that you spent time creating and doing a better life for you…which helps you…and helps you be a better person and giving kind and sharing; his addiction did nothing but hurt and destroy and did nothing to help, care or enrich your lives.
Glad you feel better.
Thank you jos,
Love,
Flora