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Hi Sisters,
I would like to see a show of hands of those of us who are staying in our marriages. Those who are struggling with the recovery process. I know there aren’t many of us, and it seems our voices are not very strong most of the time, and I really need some positive feedback and help. This road is so difficult, and there are times when I have such good things to share, but don’t.
Love, LindyHi, lindy..
I’m in struggling mode right now. Going back and forth in a maze of confusion, but at the heart of it not being able to imagine being without him. We’ve been separated for four months. He seems to be working on recovery, but as you said, the road is so difficult. I know I’m still way too wrapped up in how *he* acts from moment to moment, and that the healthy thing to do is to work on me, to work on getting stronger so that I don’t react to everything. I wasn’t in great mental shape even before all this came down in August, so I’ve got a helluva lot of work to do. And it’s hard, because the physical and mental exhaustion is overwhelming right now. Diane had mentioned baby steps, and that’s the only way I seem to be able to deal right now. What helps me with that is my to-do list, in a practical sense. Just looking at ordinary tasks I need to do, and breaking them down into tiny steps every day. Gives me a sense of accomplishment and helps me in the moment feel like I’m in the normal world. Some days are better than others, as far as that goes. I struggle a lot with isolating myself, with just wanting to hole up and be by myself.
The times I’ve decided, ‘This is it. We’re done,’ brought on by new disclosures, I haven’t managed to maintain that for very long, and I feel so empty at the thought of being without him. My heart tells me that in spite of everything, he’s a good man who wants to do the right thing now. I guess that’s what keeps me hanging on, because he was my best friend and that pull is still there. I hope you do share the things you are going through and your insights. I know we could all use them.
Love, Annie xoxoThank you Lindy, I have been struggling for a while with those same thoughts. I appreciate your candor and courage in bringing it up.
My vision for this site was a safe place for everyone to share and be supported, not preached at or told what we should do–good lord, we get enough of that from our families and ‘friends’, and often from our SA’s.
We do have some very strong, passionate voices here, and I’m afraid that often the softer voices go unheard. I am sorry for that.
The forum is a place where all of us can share our own experiences, stories and opinions, and I am not suggesting censorship or monitoring of comments. That is abhorrent to me.
But I also do not want to see this turn into a place where opinions are presented as absolutes and Sisters are made to feel attacked or criticized for the path that they choose or where they are at in their decision making, or issued ultimatums rather than choices.
I for one am staying, and I know there are others. Most women want to save their marriages and many need encouragement to find the choices that are right for them.
These Sisters need to hear voices of experience, they need to hear what works and what doesn’t, not just rantings about how SA’s will never change.
So, this is a plea for a little more support for all of our Sisters and a little less judgment for those who are following a different path.
Much love to all ~ JoAnn
lindy i for one would love to hear. i find it hard to believe that this shit is the end all. my partner is not living here now. yet i do not want to give up hope,at times that is hard. what i have learned here is that i do not deserve to be treated the way he does. in my heart i do not think he wants to do that but he has that choice. there are times i have read him a post from here and i see the pain in his eyes. funny the posts ive read to him were mine. i never told him until last week when i found out about his weekend. so please please post i need to know that its possible, that this sa is not the end. when i read others post the pain is in their words. in my lifetime i know the many times the anger i use is there so i would not feel the pain. i also know that until i feel it im no good for anyone least all myself.
much love kattAgreed.
At first, Oct 11, I thought there was enough of a basis to rebuild. I was working on that, with everything I had. Then my H was so obviously using stall tactics to give out only minimal information at the second discolsure during our last counseling appt on November 22, I realized there was little hope. He gave me the printout for that disclosure on Dec 14. After that reading that, and realizing it actually said he was not ever going to disclose the information that actually “implicated him and would end this relationship” and then this Christmas thing, I just don’t see it working at all.
H has no love for me. Never did. I was a front for his other activities, the happy family front complete with two kids. At this point I feel no like, love, desire, anything for H. I don’t hate him, like I did at the start either. I just can’t see wanting anything he has to offer, now that everything (or at least, enough) is on the table. He’a a user. I don’t want that as a character model for my son, or my daughter, or a best friend/lover for me for the rest of my life. So while H is not the kind of person I want in my life, legally, I’m stuck for at least a year. Why would I make that a year of starving and scrimping and trying to find a way to get my children to school? I’m waiting til the situation is better for them, or until I get pics of him with another woman that gives me some leverage (though I’m told that’s very minimal because of the short duration of our marriage.)
Guess that makes me a user, too. Buying time so that my family can be real again. Broken, AGAIN, damn his sorry hide, but real.
Who knows what H will do in the meantime? At this point, I’m afraid to hope at all. What if there’s absolutely no evidence of acting out, and no more disclosures, from this point on? Would I stay? I honestly don’t think so, but there’s a whole lot of fear about being alone, again, and much older, and SO DAMNED worn out over this whole thing. The exhaustion is ridiculous. I know how much effort it took to get away from my previous marriage. There’s no way I can equal that, now. My main supports have either moved or passed away. It will be even harder and I’m past the prime hiring age, and as a new grad??? Not the best odds.
I do not fault those who decide to stay. Whatever there is in your relationship that makes this a possibility for you all, I sure hope it pans out.
There are times I feel I’m being bashed for not just dropping my armload of laundry and walking out the door. But that’s not where I am right now. I’m glad for those who have made it that far, and how they’re rebuilding their lives. I cheer them, but I’m not them. Taking it one day at a time.
This is hard to admit, but here is my situation: My divorce will be final sometime after the new year. Papers are signed and filed, and all that’s left is the bang of the gavel. BUT my h is still in the house, in my bed. He has resumed going to meetings and will be starting therapy again. I now have half his 401 k and savings. He is responsible for all of our debt except for my student loans. I have physical custody of our daughter, my youngest child of 4, should he move out, and she is the only one of my kids who doesn’t know about this. My older children from my first marriage (raised by the SA) are supportive of me and whatever choice I make, but of course they have been hurt by the facts. The financial arrangements aside, I’m in the same place I’ve been for years–hanging out of the bus, neither on nor off. Every day is a negotiation. I cry every day. I don’t trust but I can’t let him go. Sometimes I hate him. I look at some of your husbands on FB, and I think, What the fuck is up with these stupid beards?! Is it like some fucked-up secret SA code? And why do they all have the same blank faces and smirky smiles? And I look at our children and ask, WHO would do this to these kids? Who would trade everyone in for some smelly skanks who offer nothing to the world but their nasty muffs? How did I end up here? How did you? I wonder if the best I can hope for if I stay is that eventually his desire for this will peter out along with his testosterone and his libido so that he can be content to live out his old age with the woman who sacrificed whatever was left of her own youth for him. It is all unbearable, all of it.
I am half way to divorce but some days feel a comPlete u turn coming on and wanting to start over. I know the marriage we had is irrevocably broken. But I see a man working a recovery and if I want to, I could see if a new relationship is possible. But I know we would have to agree a whole new way of being and agree to forgive and forget and move on.
I chose this site as JoAnn seemed to be a great role model and beacon of hope. We’ve been separated 15 months now and while some behaviours are still there – just a week before Christmas, I still have hope that maybe that’s just stress. I behave badly when I’m stressed, so why shouldnt he. He’s still human and is learning to feel… Maybe with a cenmixwr full of grace it’s possible.I do sometimes think we need to just support and empathise and look for the encouragement rather than slate husbands we don’t know. We could challenge each other without a vicious attack. I know we are each hurting but sometimes it’s not helpful to hear
I think Joanne made a good point. I think if we want advice
we should ask for it and it we want support only we should ask for that.
What do you all think? I, myself learn a lot from just reading experiences and how everything pans out with life from living with an SA.I hope that my words are NEVER seen as judgment. I have always said that a woman is free to stay with a sick man.
And I am saying it in a very soft, sympathetic, loving voice. But, when a woman tells me that she’s confused, but then she says in the same breath that she’s also scared, I see someone that I can relate to very well.
What scares me, are women who are clearly with men who are still very sick and pretending that they are on the road to a recovery that is impossible.
You cannot make a beautiful rose out of dandelion. Just a more beautiful dandelion.
love to all ~ L
and yes, I’m done. and i’m milking him for everything that he’s not worth.
quite frankly, it is a massive trigger for me, to see a woman being abused.
i can’t help it.
A woman is being abused if she is so miserable that she can’t see straight. Is being given double talk and confusing messages.
Yes, I get angry too. I have faults. I have plenty of them, and so does my husband. Faults that I am willing to overlook.
However being lied to, over and over is not one of them.
that is my bottom line.
if i am lied to be ANY MAN, HE IS TOAST.
i don’t care if he is trying.
i don’t care what he does in the future.
he has hurt me to my core and he is finished.
up to the rest of you, what you are willing to take.
and I’m sorry, maybe this isn’t the right place for me.
I’m too angry. I’m too “hard.”
I’m too enraged.
women cannot be enraged.
we must submit.
we must accept heinous behavior.
we must make excuses.
we must live our own lie.
and for what???
why?
why are my words seen as nothing but wanting the very best for a woman who is obviously in tremendous pain and doesn’t know where to turn or who to believe? I am not telling her HOW to live her life, but what the reality of the situation is… as I see it.
But, I still love you all, even if you do not like my message. Its my truth and I will not stuff it all down.
I’ve been doing that for way too long.
I don’t mind being told I’m ridiculous for staying, as long as it’s by someone who had the choice to stay or go–and stayed or went.
After all, when your main support is a site that advertises spyware and in-home STD testing…
fine with me lexie the part that confuses me is how its so easy to feel for everone else but ourselves.
It is difficult, isn’t it? But, seeing similar situations to mine, has helped me to see it in my own situation. That was HOW I finally figured out, that my husband TOO was a sex addict.
Why I was the one who was in the greatest denial of all. So, I get it. I really, really do. The alternative is unthinkable. unbearable. its unbearably painful. so, while we find it easier to empathize with another woman in a similar situation, when it comes to our own empathy, we often come up empty.
But that’s an excellent point.
Its about loving ourselves enough to empathize with ourselves. We are taught that this is “selfish,” but I don’t see it that way… I see it as “self-full” “self-preservation and “self-love.”
loving ourselves enough to know that we need not suffer at the hands of someone who does not love us in the way in which we need and very much deserve.
I have been content in the past to do all or most of the loving.
well, not anymore. it just doesn’t work. its not healthy and its not right… and i will never subject myself to that ever again, no matter how painful, no matter how scared, lonely, tired, worried…
This is my aim… To help those too tired and scared to help themselves up. To move from whatever it it is… whether they stay OR go. That is not the point.
Because a woman can stay and be miserable and she can leave and also be miserable.
the point, for me is to find that place of peace.
amen. š
Thanks everyone!
I have so many thoughts whirling around in my head now that I don’t know where to start. So first off here are just a couple of my thoughts about my staying. I am not ridiculous. I am not blind. I am not stupid or weak. I no longer submit to evil, but stand up to it. I don’t make excuses anymore for my SAs failings, because they are his, not mine.
I am living with a man who has committed himself to a better life. I see him struggling with his demons, and I can also see him beating them back and walking in front of them, not beside or behind them. He sometimes takes two steps ahead and then one step back, but in the end he is a still a step ahead of where he started out.
I received a gift from him for Christmas this year, a gift of himself. He helped me understand where he is at in such a way that, I can’t describe exactly what happened inside me, but I felt such a peace come over me, I cried. I will try and tell the story another time, but it was a pretty amazing moment for me.
JoAnn, maybe we can add another Group dedicated to the struggles that those of us who stay experience? We are in the minority, but we need just as much help as those of us who are in the throws of new discovery, or struggling through the divorce process. I would look forward to hearing more from my sisters who have the two-steps forward, one step back days. But I also wouldn’t want to exclude anyone’s comments if they aren’t in the same place because we all seem to keep each other on kiel, and I so value all the advice and insight no matter where each of us is at.
Hi all,
I had wrote a long post, however I lost it. I will try again.
So I think that anyone who would like a certain type of help or encouragement would say what they need and are asking for. Lots of the questions are open ended and request for any comments. So at that point we feel we are asked for our input and to give anything other than what we believe would not be right. The last thing I would want to do is give anyone false hope, thatās worse than the deception itself.
But what we all know is that not everyone will recover, not every marriage will make it, and not all marriages should make it. Not everyone should be forgiven for their wrongs, we should not have to forgive out spouse for their wrongs. We are individuals, and we individually decide what we want and need for ourselves. What may be enough for one, is not enough for another. We have to decide if we can get over what has happened, if we can still have respect for this person, and if we can in fact move on and forward together.
I too, just like everyone else, had utter hope and believed that my h would do this. That my marriage would work. Yes my marriage would work, but only if I expected less. And by that it meant dealing with my h the way he is, and not expecting him to change. And that is a real and true expectation. It is NOT kind of me in any way to EXPECT someone else to change for me. They must change who they are for them. Otherwise it is not right. Ijust like everyone else, had so hoped that we could be this and do this together. I had this supreme hope that we will make it, we will beat the odds. We have a strong marriageā¦but when I really sat down and lookedā¦it was not there. It really was not. I had wished and hoped that it was, even played make believeā¦because I did not want it to end.
We can make believe all we want. We can hope and pray. But that does not make anything happen.
I think we also have to be carefull about what we feel is good enough for us. We have many vaired levels of what we can and cannot take. Sometimes our threshold for poor behaviors has been set up by child hood, past marriages, desperation..just so we do not have to be alone. Or based on āthis is not as bad as xyzā. He is better than xyz, he did not beat me this week. We really have to be carefull of that. I like to think of it more in this way. What would my ideal marriage or partner be like??? And then answer. If you have that with your h then your set. But I think a lot of the doubt and fear we have is coming from within. And we try like hell to stuff it down, and make it go away. Because that fear threatens our well being.
But I think to really get to the bottom of it all, its simple to ask one question. If you had a million dollars would you stay. If the answer is no, your marriage is no longer workable. You are not in a situation you choose to be in, but rather a marriage of choice, convenience, support, money, kids on and on. But not a marriage of love and respect and where you will be cherished. Its not a place for growth for you as a person, because you are staying married for what you marriage offers you, not for it being a true marriage for being together and growing as people.None of this is easy. and many h’s may be really working the program. But i feel the fears we have are valid, and never should be suppressed. Because what i have learned most is that we need to listen to our gut. And most often times its the only clue we have. And thats not alot, and its not alot to stand on.
So many many times i always err on the side off extreme caution. I have also found that i learn just as much from an off answer as an on asnwer. I learn that yes, i do not want that, but i do want that. Often times all viewpoints are helpful. Because it helps you to see what you do and do want.
Anyway. Good luck to all. Its not easy no matter what.
Love,
FloraFlora,
That was all put really, really well, and I just realized that my marriage really ended 5.5 years ago, when I found the cyber sex on MY laptop, left open, by “accident.”
Since that hideous night, its been a marriage of the semi-living dead. š
With two deeply disordered children and the endless energy that required, plus the HOPE for a better tomorrow, with the marriage still intact, I wasn’t in a place where leaving was even a possibility. So, I tried to make my marriage “work” in a situation where my husband obviously had no real interest in me, as a woman.
I will not ask for a man to want me. Its very painful to say that. He didn’t want me, but he wanted some fat, homely. domesticated nudist cunt with lupus instead of me?
Actually, I think that they are perfect for each other.
However, why would anyone do that to someone he claims to “love.” Why didn’t he ask me for a divorce and then he could be whoever he wanted to be?
we know why.
He went looking for it– over and over… but what he wrote in his ads, described the woman who was laying right next to him, crying herself to sleep into her pillow.
I never ever asked my husband to change. Why would I? I did try to have him get help for himself, but he refused. I was hoping that he would change of his own accord and value me, as he once did, but he did not. He could not, however, he deeply, deeply regrets it now. (he says)
or does he just deeply regret seeing me cry all the time and having to live outside of his home?
Ms. Lindy, I never hear you go on and on about how miserable you are, and all of your posts about yourself, sound so incredibly hopeful and like your h is truly walking the talk.
and that is an ENTIRELY different situation. That is a completely separate league from the majority of us, and I’m so sorry if you feel that people think that you are nuts for staying. I know that I don’t. not nuts at all. I DID give my husband many chances. I did allow him to lie to me… over and over…
Its when I hear the stories, of the same kinds of abusive, kinds of treatment, and then, sprinkled with some positive moments– crumbs of decent behavior. Its the intermittent reinforcement, that’s a killer. How well I know, but that is why I caution women to look at the very big picture. I failed to do so, with two men, not my husband. I looked at only the positive and stuffed away the negative and no one could tell me otherwise. So, I get it. I guess I’m trying to save someone else the kind of heart ache I endured in addition to the discovery that my husband was the one who made it all possible, by his actions.
This is all so emotionally charged. I never imagined that I would be leaving my marriage or that I’d make my darling husband move out. my “puppy.”
I’m still unbelievably heartsick that my entire life has come to this.
Again, I am not as strong as some people would like to think. My leaving is not a sign of strength. Its just a sign that I’m feeling the intense heat of the raging steel melting fire, behind me.
I have no choice but to jump— even if it means certain death, for the alternative is even worse.
Its a sad, empty lonely death and I am fighting that possibility with everything I have.
love ~ Laurel
according to the 4th therapist we saw today, I am staying.
can not decide if I like this guy or not, but I told him, sorry if that is a requirement then I will not attend any more. I was only along because he asked me to come.One of the things that really struck a chord with me is in the gas light effect book it says nothing will truly change unless you are serious about giving up the relationship.
I like march’s idea ( I think it was march – afraid to click back and loose this) Divorce him, and then think about it.
I do not trust for a second that he will not find away to screw me over. even though he is so sweet he is dripping with sugar right now.I want a guarantee that 10 years from now he will not take up with some young thing. This guarantee is impossible for any marriage, much less for one with an sa. But it is what I want, so I will get a piece of paper that protects me and entitles me to what is mine. If he really wants me enough after the divorce to really really really do the hard work, well then I will have my answer.
It is the safest solution for me that I can come up with.
hmmmmmm………who is guessing he will do the hard work after we are divorced? He swears he will, we’ll see.
Haaa. I have thought the same thing!!!
I have thought if h truely 100% wants me, and is not full of BS, we can divorce and still be together right? He can pursue and try to change, and if not i am off. And really that is a luxury we should always have. We should always be able to leave a bad situation. But we are married and dependent so its not that easy. I have begun to think that those couples who never get married and just do some sort of commitement ceremony every year, really may have it right.
I also like the idea of the speration/split. The wife does not dragged trhoguh the mud, she starts a new. They can date once a week, whatever. But they will set a goal time frame. 6 months, 1 year, in which a decision would be made. It takes the pressure off, and allows everyone to work on what they need to do.
And truely if it is meant to me…it will be. He will be there, he will not chase someone else down. he will be there.
I heard a sad story today from a woman at work about a friend of hers. The friend is named Deb. So debs father molested debs daughter. Debs mother blamed debs daughter for the molesting conviction. The man was in fact convicted and sent to jail for ten months and probation fot ten years. Deb’s mother blames the grand daughter, and deb herself does nothing to help her own daughter. And while Debs dad was in jail debs mom worried that the h, convicted chold molester, might not want her when he gets out. I said hell that is the best thing that could happen to her. But this is the sick thinking that happens to “stay” with someone who is bad. She blames the victim and is worried he may no longer wnat her. Its truely sad. But this is how diseases like this flourish, and no one puts the blame squarely where it should rest, on his shoulders. Instead all the other players cover for him. Its sick. However within the family its perfectly fine.
And i have also found that many of the therapists who treat addicts and hear this crap all the time, are numb to the effects it has on the family. Hey no big deal looked at porn inf ront of his daughter, well hes not doing i now??? WTF??? It sickens me.
Arghhh.
FloraDearest Laurel and Everyone,
Our situations are not entirely different. I’ve been where the majority of you sisters are now. It’s just that, how do I say this…maybe that my pain and heartbreak isn’t as fresh…it’s old and scarred over? Nevertheless, I still carry it with me. I’m in a different place right now from where I was nine years ago, yes. I let my husband lie to me over and over too, because I didn’t know what else to do, how to stand up to it because I really didn’t know what ‘it’ was. My first d-day was in August 2003. He didn’t start his recovery in earnest until probably less than a year ago. He tried to start two years ago, but just hadn’t gotten to the the point yet where he understood just what it truly meant.I lived for years listening to him tell me he was sorry, that he really did love only me, and the hookers and porn stars didn’t mean anything to him. Problem was they meant so much to me. I looked for support in my area, I searched for help on-line, and couldn’t find it. I asked why he could do that to me if he loved me…he said he could, because he loved himself more.
I don’t know just what exactly, if it was something I said or didn’t say, something I did or didn’t do that brought him to his knees. Perhaps it was when I finally told myself enough, and to him…you can’t do this to me and expect me to stay here. Perhaps it was because he was sick to death of himself and hated himself more than I did. I don’t know.
Not every man has the capacity to loath himself.
Laurel, I hear so much pain everytime I read your writings. I recognize that you are not strong sometimes, but I also hear/see in you a strength that tells me you are not weak either.
The fact that you have taken that step to separate yourself from your pain tells me that you are a survivor. It is not so much a sad, empty, lonely death as a sad, lonely journey that you are embarking upon all alone, and it is terrifying. I know that you want to save others from the pain you are feeling too, and I find no fault in your warning cries to others. There is no good in false hope. I have heeded your warnings many a time, and am grateful for them.
I created this post for many reasons. I’m excited that my SA has made it this far, and I am hearing words and seeing actions from him I never thought possible, and I want to share my excitement. I started this post because I am still scared to death that it isn’t real. I started this post because I know there is hope for him and me, and I don’t want my cynicism and negativity to get in the way and prevent me from giving him the chance he and I both so desperately need. I started this post because I am so starved for affirmation that I’m okay for staying. You see, you aren’t the only one who can appear strong on the outside while you’re crumbling on the inside. I started this post because I just wanted to hear someone who’s in the same stages as myself say to me, wow, Lindy that sounds so hopeful. And when I cry because I’m not hopeful, I want to hear someone say to me, Lindy it’s okay, we all have setbacks.
I’m so grateful to be here and for the ability to say what I need to say.
Love, LindyHoney,
I believe the affirmation needs to come from yourself. If its right for you, then its right and no one can take that away from you! There are people who criticize some of us for leaving too! Just ask B’Trayed!!!
It doesn’t matter what we do in life. There will be people who disapprove, misunderstand, don’t/can’t get our own reality. Make judgments. I can’t tell you the hundreds of times, I’ve been the recipient of icy stares and worse out in public with my horribly behaved children. (when they were little, not now) Oh, I could read their minds.
HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE MOTHER WHO CAN’T “DISCIPLINE” THOSE TWO HELLIONS!!!
And if they could read my mind… they would hear.
“come take my “horrible mother” place and come live in my home for a week, missy, and then we’ll talk, okay?”
we cannot possibly know what it is like for another unless we’ve walked in their exact shoes.
love ~ L
Lindy.
Thanks so much for the topic and agree we all support no matter the situation we are in. Someone else shared being more specific in what you are looking for in a post. If you need encouragement ask for it, advice ask and understand the responses will not necessarily be what you want to hear but rather be based in the experience of the person giving itI am still with my sah and have been really impressed with his progress lately. It’s like he’s on recovery speed. He’s going to 90 in 90, makes meetings or mass every day when on business trips. He Knows I’ve been struggling with PTSD and has gone out of his way to change behavior to make me feel more comfortable. All unsolicited by me he Changed his phone numbers leaves phone out, gave passwords to accounts etc.
My point being that they can change if they want to, they wont be perfect at it but they should at least be moving forward And he is. And I am beginning to move forward too
Now the question is, can I change? Can we?
We were discussing that very thing tonight. The relationship we had was based on so many falsehoods on both our parts and that relationship is dead. In many ways this is very painful and feels like a death but in some ways it offers us some hope
The person I thought he was is dead and the person he thought I was is gone. We are working on boundaries to determine what each of us is willing to do to salvage the marriage and what we will not do, what we are willing to forgive (not forget) how we will measure progress, what progress looks like for us, what we want from a partner and do we even resemble the person the other one wants?
We have a ton of work to do. And to do it, will mean I have to get off of the fence I’ve been straddling and actually try. I’ve been depressed, erratic, filled with fear, anger and sadness but haven’t really figured out if I want to put in the effort it will take to make it work bc it will be work.
So anyway the good news is we are both going to take our time in processing all that has happened and make a decision that will work best for our family.
Its as if we were both children who were trapped in adult bodies and that it took my alcoholism, his sa and my affair for us to grow up, learn to communicate, and treat each other with respect. who would have thought those things would have helped us. I truly don’t know that we will get past all of our issues were kindof a train wreck but we are both growing, changing and know these issues are going to follow us where ever we go or show up no matter who we end up with so we are going to try and work on the issues while still married and continue to take it one day at a time
Lindy. Hope you do share your Christmas story. Sounds like a good one!
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