Why are we accepting this diagnosis??

Hi Karen,
He’s my opinion. Medicine is actually an art not just a science. It wasn’t that long ago they thought autism was caused by ” cold ” mothering and blamed the mother.

Even though the brain is one of most important organs in our body, relatively speaking less time, money, and resources are spent on it. There are so many severely mentally ill people living on the streets (60% of the homeless). Why ? Because sadly as a society it’s cheaper and easier to just not see.

I agree, nothing can be fixed well unless it’s properly defined, just like autism and it’s evaluation. In some way shape or form medicine is alway archaic in many ways It’s always evolving.

Love, Nap

I think it’s a legitimate addiction/compulsion just like gambling and shopping can be. Like food can be. Like hoarding. When it takes over your life, takes you hostage and you feel incapable of stopping on your own; when it affects your life and health in negative ways; when your entire day revolves around when/how you’re going to do/get it; when you negotiate with yourself, make deals with god, promise others but nothing works….it’s an addiction. I’ve personally battled alcohol and food (anorexia/bulimia) and know that eventually the pleasure I got from getting tanked or eating an entire cake was quickly replaced by shame and regret, yet I couldn’t stop.

And what is the flip side of that cash cow? The spouse. They longer they keep her, staying for one year, with the spouse….that atleast garantees another 1 year plus of therapy…maybe a lifetime. Why in therapy is it not addressed for us to have had made poor choices possibley, neglected ourself and thoughts…and why do they almost force you to stay….saying you’ll just find another one?? Why are they not helping us?

Because the longer we are miserable sad and can’t figure ourselves out, trying to live in a nightmare…the more money they make. A two for one deal.

Therapist say the statistics are high for recovery, because if they did not…they would have no clients. Everyone would throw in the towel.

I am sure march will be an exc. therapist!!

Power to ya girl!!
Love,
Flora

Thanks for your confidence in me.

I think you’re right about the push to keep the wife stuck. If she leaves, he probably goes right back out, with free rein. She’s the one who insists on therapy and keeps him in it. Down the road, she’s still there when he relapses, and then comes the double-down.

Alcoholism was once an incurable and untreatable mental illness.

The world is bipolar and ADHD. The diagnosis became a fad. Is that because there is no such thing? Or because we know more now than we did 20 years ago? In my opinion, these are real conditions. And a lot of people have been misunderstood in the past because of a lack of diagnosis. Then something becomes a fad and suddenly there is an over diagnosis. A lot of kids have been able to be successful in ways that would have never been possible without the awareness of ADHD that we have now. A lot of kids are just brats being given drugs.

Sex addiction is what is fascinating the nation right now. Some people are finding help for problems they have and never understood before. Some are just jerks using sex addiction as an excuse for poor character.

There are men who would die for their families. Men who know that if they betray their wives one more time they will lose the family they hold dear. Yet they do it anyway. There is something above and beyond “asshole” wrong with that picture. Call it sex addiction, hyper sexuality disorder or any other name. No matter what you name it, it’s still a problem that needs a solution.

And even if the 12 steps don’t help, at least it’s an attempt at some solution and you don’t need to be an addict to benefit from them. It’s not going to hurt to try.

As to how the wives are treated… codependency is no different than anything else. Some people ARE codependents, some not.

But the codependence or trauma of the spouse has no bearing on whether or not sex addiction is a real thing.

As for the DSM… no behavioral addiction is listed. Not gambling, shopping, food, etc. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Behavior addictions mirror substance addictions.

The DSM criteria for substance addiction is:
Answer yes or no to the following seven questions.

1.Tolerance. Has your use of drugs or alcohol increased over time?
2.Withdrawal. When you stop using, have you ever experienced physical or emotional withdrawal? Have you had any of the following symptoms: irritability, anxiety, shakes, sweats, nausea, or vomiting?
3.Difficulty controlling your use. Do you sometimes use more or for a longer time than you would like? Do you sometimes drink to get drunk? Do you stop after a few drink usually, or does one drink lead to more drinks?
4.Negative consequences. Have you continued to use even though there have been negative consequences to your mood, self-esteem, health, job, or family?
5.Neglecting or postponing activities. Have you ever put off or reduced social, recreational, work, or household activities because of your use?
6.Spending significant time or emotional energy. Have you spent a significant amount of time obtaining, using, concealing, planning, or recovering from your use? Have you spend a lot of time thinking about using? Have you ever concealed or minimized your use? Have you ever thought of schemes to avoid getting caught?
7.Desire to cut down. Have you sometimes thought about cutting down or controlling your use? Have you ever made unsuccessful attempts to cut down or control your use?
If you answered yes to at least 3 of these questions, then you meet the medical definition of addiction. This definition is based on the of American Psychiatric Association (DSM-IV) and the World Health Organization (ICD-10) criteria.

You’re ‘sober’ if you’ve made the decision to quit and you’re not using. You can have 2 days or 30 years. I don’t have the statistics on longterm recovery handy. But for my own purposes, when I say something about making a decision while sober, I mean after detox and all the withdrawal symptoms have ended and the physical “need” for the drug is gone. In other words, when all that’s left is the hard work of recovery.

Diane,
That’s why I hear some experts (and many of “us” experts, lol) grapple with the term addiction, and use the term sexual compulsion, I guess. But then what does that mean in terms of treatment, recovery, etc?

Julie, I can answer that in terms of my eating disorders. My disordered eating began when I was young. I was diagnosed as anorexic at 10. Before I began starving myself, there was a period of time when I’d eat an entire pound box of chocolate stars at once. I remember doing this at my grandparents’ house, where I’d been molested by my uncle from who-knows-when until I was 4. He was a teenager, and about a brick shy of a load. I would also obsess about food, constantly poring over cookbooks, especially those with pictures, especially desserts. I copied recipes. I dreamed about Baked Alaska. By the time I was in fifth grade, I couldn’t sit still to watch TV. I’d lie in the floor and do “calisthenics” while I watched. My mother had to make my clothes because nothing store-bought fit. She cried when I tried them on. By 15, I was bulimic and by 17, still bulimic and alcoholic. By college, I was bulimic, alcoholic (jack daniels was my drink of choice), and a distance runner (I ran 3 marathons). The eating disorders didn’t stop even after I was hospitalized with a raging kidney infection that the doctor attributed to my staying dehydrated from over-exercising, drinking nothing but alcohol, and vomiting daily. I kept at it for another couple of years, and then it stopped miraculously: I’d just moved into a tiny basement apartment by myself (first time I’d ever lived alone), and I made a batch of brownies to celebrate. My MO was to eat the entire batch, and that would kick off an evening of binging. For some reason that night, I looked at the brownies sitting on the stovetop and thought to myself, “You’re killing yourself.” I threw them in the trash and gave up sweets cold turkey. It was as though someone (God?) had flipped a switch. But I surrendered, finally, and began recovering. Now I eat to stay alive, and I can enjoy food, but I don’t live for it or use it to fill an emotional void. I don’t obsess about it or plan my days around what I am or I’m not going to eat. I don’t eat breakfast while counting the hours to lunch and dreaming about what I’ll eat at noon. I don’t eat in secret. I don’t spend hours beating myself up and feeling shame for what I’ve eaten.

I didn’t want to hijack this thread. But it won’t let me post a new topic. So since this one got me started, I’ll throw it here.

I think with substance abuse the need to withstand completely is not just psychological but also chemical as opposed to behavioral addictions.

Similar to food… an anorexic person cannot stop eating for life. They need to learn to use food in a healthy psychological light. And they are a lot of psychological core work that needs to be done for some people to accomplish that. But it is accomplished frequently. Ironically anorexia is a compulsion not to do something rather than a compulsion to do something. (drink) Where as bulimia is a compulsion to eat and purge. In my view anyway. Anorexia was avoidance for food for me. Hungry? Go smoke a cigarette. Drink water. No calories, very filling. My very petite 5’2” 13 year old daughter weighs 14 pounds more than I did at 32 and 5’5”. I can look at photos of myself 10 years ago and still think I didn’t look thin. But then I look at my daughter… do the math… and don’t see how that is possible. I saved a pair of jeans to look at and see how small they were. Lately though I wish I fit into them. I weigh 132 and feel huge. The toll this sex addiction thing has taken on my self image sucks. I eat 500-600 calories a day and maintain that weight. Which makes me feel desperate at times and I stand in the store looking at the diuretics, diet pills, laxatives, etc. and struggle not to buy them. I tell myself I think I have more work to do. I quit smoking 6 years ago and have wanted a cigarette for months, I have sworn off any alcohol consumption beyond one class of wine because I have a very strict personal policy that I will not drink when I am unhappy or depressed. But I sure could use a drink.

Whether or not you view behavioral abuse as “addiction” or not does not change the fact that it CAN be changed.

Sorry for all the me me me babbling. But I am really grateful to everyone’s discussion in this thread and everyone here and wanted to say so. First, it actually made me feel more confident in my husbands ability to change. Second, March’s words made me take a more honest look at myself and realize I DO need to concentrate more on my own recovery from all of this before I’m shopping in the children’s section again, smoking and indulging in a bottle of wine instead of a glass.

And believe it or not I’ve been blowing it all off till I typed this.

Now I am off to that wonderful CSAT to let her know I will only come one day a month instead of every week.

touche’ and thank you. I guess now I can move to the question of what holding him accountable is going to look like.

Here’s a question. How do we hold someone accountable for their actions? I mean really. Can’t we only account for ourselves and our experience? I mean my psycho SAH has zero accountability for his actions. I, in my mind, know he is responsible for his behavior. But he won’t go there. I mean we can’t control how people see themselves.

Bonnie, One thing I would offer, which is just my opinion, is that having loving sexual interactions with someone we are in a relationship seems healthy to me, and not at all the same as the “acting out” addictive behaviors. In fact, many of these men DO seem to abstain from sex with their wives, and in that case I would say the abstience is part of the illness. I think the problem is that they are simply pathological in their approach to sex–whether they are abstaining or engaging.
Pam–gosh I wish I knew! Im not talking about punishment, I dont even feel like that. Holding accountable to me means letting him experience the repercussions of his behavior. So maybe I am just discovering in myself what those repercussions (effects of this) are….