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Hi sisters,
I’m flat on my back, having been struck with the same trouble that used to happen when I was with my ex mother in law and my ex at the same time.
Why? well here it is:
I talked to my ex yesterday. He hasn’t spoken to his mother for over a year and half—doctors orders. For those who don’t know my story, his SA stems from her emotionally incestuous relationship with him. That means as a child she sexualized their relationship by placing him as a surrogate husband emotionally to her, and by inviting him to engage in inappropriate physical intimacies (like undoing her bra because she said she couldn’t reach it, etc) that stopped short of sex. She was terrible to me all our married life and inserted herself into our marriage. She favoured my eldest son, and ignored my youngest because she wanted him to be a girl. To this day she gives him gifts for girls, eg. this Christmas he got pink girls socks wrapped in floral paper with a floral card.
Enough back story.
In the phone call my SA said that my eldest has visited his grandma twice when he came east (we live in different province from her). He went to the barn where I was staying but had left for a few days. During that few days he managed to see her twice. My SA said she did the whole guilt thing on him—poor sick old lady abandoned by her family except for him blah blah. My eldest KNOWS what she did to us all, btw. My SA was upset that I didn’t know, and I pointed out that he had taught the boys to keep secrets, especially from me, and that he had taught them that it was okay to be disloyal to me and insensitive to my feelings.My back started up as soon as I heard this. My son is coming over after work tonight for dinner. I’ve been crying and just so upset. She’s getting her hooks into the next generation. He’s 24 and prone to “compensate” for others. And yes, I know I am partially to blame for him learning that. I also continue to support him in his education (one more year). Grandma does nothing for him and never has. Never even changed a diaper when we DID live in the same province.
How can I deal with him tonight? I have three issues and don’t know what to do about them. They are:
1. He is in danger of being manipulated and used and emotionally abused.
2. I can’t survive her invasion of my life again through him.
3. I am so hurt that after everything he knows she did to us all, but especially how it affected me, that he would choose to have relationship with her anyway. I am just so hurt. It’s like no one in my family can every bring themselves to think about my feelings–regardless of what I do for them—I am never a priority. This women who will not admit anything, gets his time, and btw, he didn’t spend anytime with me. In fact, he asked me if he and his girlfriend could be alone there.I’m a big mess. So much for my great vacation. I just hate this so much!!!!
thanks for reading,
Diane.Diane,
He’s 24 and young and she is his grandma. Hmmm. This is tough. I don’t know much about how to deal with the emotional abusers, but to block them out. That is the only “safe” thing to do.
From your son’s perspective if you blow up and he feels that you making things up or attacking grandma it could blow up in your face, and backfire. Creating a more alienating relationship with you.However if you do nothing, it may create the same situations. Almost damned if you do and damned if you don;t. Unf. the old bat knows what she is doing and has done so for years. And i suppose your ex h would not support a no grandma contact rule?
Is there any suggested reading on creatures like grandma? Maybe education is the best bet? You could explain about the relationship she had with his dad and how that damaged him. You could talk about situations which are not appropriate.
I was reading a book about toxic divorce. And some parents are prone to alienate the other parent from the child by talking bad about them, “winning” the child in all situations. It said one of the best things you can do about parental alienation is to spend time with him, keeping your connection with him, maybe help to avoid disaster?
I will have to think on this one.
But enjoy your son tonight. Keep your bond close.The other thing is to divulge a careful amount of “trash talk” about the other parent. So they are not on this high pillar. If you allow it to run rampant…you lose. I have not got to the part of the book that discusses this yet. But it sounds like it deals with triangulating relationships…maybe that is how this situation needs to be addresed. Except the tirangulating has always been with the h’s mother. Now she is trying to put your son in that role.
Oh Diane, I am so sorry you are in so much pain. I can relate with you.
I know people have told me that our children, even young adults can’t process things like adults, but I don’t know if keeping them in denial is best, but often they choose to stay in denial…it feels better to them…”we are a happy family!”
Being honest without shaming can also be good. It will help him be more sensitive to you, yet with my son it has not been very smooth at times. My opening up can cause him to pull away. My h stays light with the kids so they love being with him, but I believe in truth and integrity in relationships, so it seems like a catch-22. Be honest and potentially push him away or make him feel obligated…don’t say anything and live with a fake relationship in that HUGE area. I am sorry. What a bummer
So sorry your son did not want to spend more time with you. Often, our children take us for granted because we will always be there…they don’t think about visiting us, because they are a part of us in a way. Your mother-in-law is more of the outsider he visits…you are Mom, a part of his inner circle. It is really an honor to be overlooked in a way; it usually means you are close. Formalities go with the outside circle. I don’t like it, but I think it is true. My mom would come to all my track meets in high school. I would greet others, and forget my dear ole’ mom. I loved her, and took her for granted, but I felt obligated to greet others, if that makes any sense. My dad and mom told me this and I did work on it.
Bottom line, I don’t have the answers, but I wish I did. I do have the ability to relate, since many, many people support my h and don’t care how he has treated me! It hurts and angers me…I hope you are able to have some peace soon my friend, and I hope this situation works itself out.
much love, B. TrayedWow Diane,
I can understand why you are so upset. Your mother in law sounds like a case study for sure. If she is a narcissist, which she sounds like, she had your oldest son chosen as “the golden child (grand)”, and then none of the other kids measure up. And its really hard to be a girl when you’re a boy (brother, that’ really sick). She lives on narcisstic suppy and she likely gets some from him. I say “so what”, let her play her sick games. It’s all about her and she’s only thinking of herself; she’s not even really thinking of him.Sooo, I think you are mad and hurt and rightfully so. I think you should tell your son how hurt you are about him not seeing you (I’d leave the witch out of the conversation). By gosh your his mom and he’d better be more respectful to you and I would express this to him. Like Dr. Phil says we have to teach people how to treat us (unfortunately). Your son is likely oblivous to all this. He needs to know you dont ignore your mother. If he want a warp relationship with grandma at 24 he can and I wouldn’t even give a rats as* about it because you know whats shes like.
These are just my thoughts Diane, thinking of you and wishing you peace.
Love, Nap
((((HUGS)))) Diane,
The midlife Mom’s get your pain. I think Flora and B-tayed both had good insight.
I have a book called The Emotional Incest Syndome by Dr. Patricia Love. It spells out the clear boundary violations and how subtle it can be.
I’m sorry that your son wanted to be there with his girlfriend without you. I’ve had that experience too, longing for my son to come to see us and he walks in one day and says, “What are you doing here, I thought you were gone.” I cried, and his girlfriend told him on the way home never to leave her alone with me again. They were in their late teens and haven’t a clue about the mother’s loss. Be careful not to reveal too much pain, they just are not there yet.
I also hear your pain in your sacrificial mother love. I’m sure, Diane, that you were a wonderful mom. Somehow, we are the only one who really knows all the countless gestures of love and devotion we gave to our children. God knows too. They will know one day when they have their own.
The triangulating Flora is talking about is a bad habit. I did a lot of compensating for my H during our child-raising years and always supported my H to the kids, even when he was an a- hole. Now, it seems, I am the neurotic one. My sons call him all the time and I get a nod once in a while. It hurts. It hurts so much, I have to let it go because I have already told them how I feel, and they love me, but it didn’t change anything and I spilled all my heart out and I look like a bitter grasping crone. I’m not doing it anymore.
Did you say poor sick old lady? I know this sounds callous but she is going to die a long time before your do. And she lives a long way from your family?… So they don’t see her all that often? Let her have her little bit of time, you will have the good stuff later. As they grow up, they will figure all this out. It is so hard for us to be wise and hold our pain and wait.
My wise old MIL, at 93, told me she hated how her grandkids looked and talked about some things but she said, I didn’t give then a hard time, I didn’t want them to hate me.
I try to drop little words in casually and in an upbeat way because for many years, because of the problems in the marraige and not wanting them to repeat my life, I talked them into a coma. I didn’t mean to. My Mom didn’t talk to me, so I wanted to be different than her. Now I just want to be fun and let them make their mistakes and love them and be there when they come to me, usually for the clean-up. Although I don’t rush to fix it either anymore.
You have your girlfriends to grieve with. Cry to them. I have a particular close friend and we talk about the kid stuff and cry a lot.
I have been a bit AWOL from my kids lives for the past year, since D-day I haven’t been good to be around. But now I’m getting better. I want to take the pictures and be in them, making memories to look back on. I sometimes am in so much pain in social situations that I could die but I just get through it and don’t let them know and it’s better for us all.
I am not as giving as I once was either. My kids are 35 – 22 and I have given a lot. It is now my turn to take care of myself. My son, mentioned above, has now waited till a week before classes to get his student loans ready and want a co-sign on a regular loan for school. We’re not going to do it. It’s emotional blackmail. He is a good kid but a bit entitled. We have already helped him through his associates. We don’t have big money. I feel a bit bad and afraid how he will blame me or be mad at me but also good in myslef that I cannot buy my kids love.
You will be OK, Diane. You are just hurt right now.
I recommend a bottle of Late Harvest Reisling.
Standing with you,
Debora
Hi Diane,
Take a deep breath and try to relax those muscles. And then tell yourself that you are doing okay and you are doing a good job as a mother. Because all of those things are true. You have told your son the truth, and that is exactly the tool he needs to navigate the future. He will be okay because you raised him with your view of the world, too, and because he knows the truth. It may take him a few years to process the truth and figure out how to incorporate that into his life, and that’s okay. I have a daughter about the same age, with a similar situation.( triangulated by her Dad against me while she was grown up and relationship with narcissistic grandfather) She has a relationship with my husband’s father ( whom I and my husband and my three other children really don’t like much) because, as she says, “he’s old and I feel sorry for him.” I think we just have to accept that we raised our children to make their own decisions, even if we don’t agree with them or wouldn’t make the same choices and be true to ourselves in our actions and beliefs. We can’t control our kids any more than we can control our SA’s. All we can do at this point is do the right thing going forward, and for me, that is to love my children, be the best mother I can be, and give them the gift of truth and let them live their own life and make their own choices. My guess is that your son is more savvy and intuitive than you may think. I think he’s okay Diane, and I know you are. You are amazing, and when your exSA calls….tell him your son is an adult and if he has any concerns or questions…..he should take them up with your son:)
Love,
MarieThank you, one and all,
You did bring me wisdom. I knew you would. And such a wonderful variety of it!The visit with my son went okay. I shared some funny personal stuff from my own life that he didn’t know before, and then talked about not having secrets about who we really are. I asked him how he was with the Christmas time disclosure and if he knew about his dad. He told me he did and so did his younger brother. We talked about that, and I talked about what Grandma had done to him, and how two generations later, the toxicity of her own pain was still powerful enough to ruin other people’s lives. Then I just started telling stories of grandma that he didn’t know, all of which were true and horrifying, revealing who she was. I talked about how stepping away from her was probably making her desperate because she didn’t have us to use as her shit pile anymore. But I saved the most powerful piece for the last. My eldest son loves his younger brother more than anything in the world. So I talked about the day his younger borther was born, and how he (the older one) climbed on the hospital bed to tell how much he loved his brother already. And then I described how Grandma held him for a few minutes and gave him back, saying only “he’s quite green, isn’t he?” And how she ignored him for two whole years, telling us how she wanted a girl, and what she would have given us if we’d given her a girl etc. Stories of Grandma’s emotional abuse of younger brother right up to last Christmas and the pink socks. By then my eldest son realized and talked about how sick she must be, and how dangerous she was. So he never told me he went to see her, but I think he got enough new facts to provide a context for the crap she fed him.
Anyway I like your wisdom very much. I’m going to read it all over again, and let it sink in where it needs to. Thank you thank you for being there for me!!! I know we take turns being on the receiving end. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again—-I don’t know what I would do without having this whole team with me through it all.
love and good night
Diane.Diane, been thinking of you all evening…. I’m glad things went so well with your son! Whew! That’s a biggeeeee!!
Don’t you just love the smart ladies and all their insight?? (Including YOU)!!
It made me cry earlier to read your post- you were so sad!! I hope when you read this one, you are feeling much, MUCH better!!In sisterly love!
SL….. <3
Diane,
I am proud of you and the way you handled that. “The gift of truth,” as Marie stated, is what you gave your son. I think we have to truly acknowledge family issues to overcome them instead of repeating them. It sounds like your son acknowledged his grandma’s problems, and can be the wiser for it. You provided that truth. Blessings, B. Trayed
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