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just out of curiosity, why did you have to stand there? Obviously you have to protect your son, but why not park open the window and stay at the wheel. Tell your son that you encourage him to get out and talk to his dad. Then sit there and listen. You did your part. You got him there and out of the car. They can’t manipulate you if you aren’t available. After a set period of time – say 20 minutes then get out of the car and say “bat what is your choice tonight?” Let him decide to get in the car with you or dad. If he gets in your car tell the other idots that you will be here to try again next week or whatever. Then drive away. Document time with the camera. You don’t have to worry about your words if you don’t speak any. You got him there and out of the car – your part is done.
I keep everything scanned and in a folder on my computer and backed up on cd in a deposit box. I have little kids and there’s no way I’m letting him get any kind of custody of them. I could see throwing it away after he’d proven sobriety for say 5 years… but until then I keep it. I don’t look at it too obsessively though. It’s filed and away. I do read my blog a lot though. 5 years of pain and reminders of why I can’t trust this sa jerk. I read it when I’m feeling my resolve disappearing. It’s a good record and dated too if I need it.
i work with IT. I would never have a computer, phone, tablet, whatever in the house without content blocking software, anti-virus software, and spyware software installed and regularly updated and monitored. Covenant eyes, eblaster, – I’ve used net nanny for 6 years now and it’s simple to use, easy to monitor and only $20/year for upgrades. you can lock the internet down to certain times, remotely view or change permissions etc. It has been a partial lifesaver for me.
Unfortunately locking out content is the least of your issues right now. Those boys need to know just how much trouble they can get in by starting off that way… my sa went to prison for 5 years on a minor infraction (wasn’t even sex) and has destroyed his life – employment is hard to find, housing is even worse, he’s off the registry now but depending on a state move he could go back on at any time. His life – and by default our whole family has been affected. I have a friend in the DA’s office in our state that deals with these men on a daily basis and she has stories that could make your head spin. Even them being in the wrong place at the wrong time could land them in legal hell.
That said you can also tell them how much objectifying women can destroy not only them, but society. how corrupt the porn industry is and what it feeds. There is a good series on YouTube of 5 videos documentary style that I watched that were excellent. Also the one that joann has on here “The impact of pornography on women”. I watched it last night. If you teach the kids that their job is to honor and protect women not objectify and somehow get that into their heads it will help. I know their young – but in this day and age you can’t afford to be delicate. (the industry doesn’t care how young they are – it just wants their eyes and their money).
I’m facing the same with my kids in a few short years. I hate that society has turned into this. I really do.
I know I’m fairly new here but I’d like to chime in. I find myself right now in an overwhelming state of disillusionment. Even knowing that my SA was a SA going in I never expected the shit level it had reached until 3 weeks ago. I’m still reeling from the disclosure from last Friday. My only level of sanity is gratitude that we have already been separated for 5 months, that there is no remnant of the life we were leading left, and that I am in a good safe place right now where I can either curl up in a ball and cry or batten down the hatches, dig the trenches, and arm for all out war.
I’m pissed too that for yet a second time in my life my forward progress has been put on hold by some weakass man who has put my life in a holding pattern (I’ve come to the realization that I have really crappy taste in men). All the plans for my life came to a screeching halt last weekend. Now I’m in the process of laying out new ones. Hopefully healthier ones.
sadly I have kept a journal since D day – even though I didn’t know it at the time. It’s called Watching from the Inside – a study of addiction and it’s consequences.
I hear you with the house thing. It’s been just less than a week since I found out what was really going on in my house for years… by the grace of god I sold it at the end of January and am free and clear of that place. All the time and effort and money i put in to fixing it up… giving birth to both my kids there – none of it would make me go back even to drive past that house again now that I know what he was doing there. I feel like an idiot.
Thanks to everyone for the replies, and sorry for the delay. The parties this weekend are finally over and the asshole is back on a plane. I’d hope it crashes – but that wouldn’t be fair to the other people on it. Maybe he’ll get pushed out at 30,000 feet?
Apparently taking the ring from him was the most devastating thing I could have done to him. He begged me to return it before he left. I guess he spent over an hour crying after I left the hotel. I say good. He should have had a little more of that feeling while he was out screwing around.
I did thank him though. He swore up and down that he didn’t want to tell me about any of this. He was “protecting” me – yeah right. He was protecting himself. He knew I’d walk away. By”protecting” me he was keeping me a slave in his world and taking away my free agency by keeping me ignorant. That is what pisses me off the most. Guess I can be thankful it’s over now.
pam, it really is messed up. I’ve come to the understanding that in order for these men to do what they do it’s all objectification. They objectify women in photos, movies, at work, on the street, at church – how do we believe they’re not objectifying us too…
They can’t give us answers for two reasons. First in their heads we are non-entities. When they aren’t sober we are only objects. Who argues with the refrigerator or confesses to the couch. Second their mental block protecting them from feeling remorse and pain understands just enough to know that even though we are objects we can hurt them worse through our actions and words than they are already hurting. They can’t argue with themselves that what they’re doing isn’t so bad if they see our pain… so they “protect us” from their evil site – yeah right. They’re only protecting themselves.
Since we have become nothing more than animated objects with no human feeling that are a constant itching reminder to them that what they’re doing is terribly horribly wrong it usually takes time and someone else to drag the truth out of them.
Their brains are truly wired differently than sane people. If we want answers we’re going to have to wait for a translator – and yes it sucks.
Coming straight from my addicts mouth the reason that the disclosure takes so long is that it is meant to baseline out the individual to a point in time where they can move forward and “leave” all the crap they’ve done before in the past. Since most men forget the disgusting things they’ve done in the past it takes the therapist a while to get them to remember – and then admit to – and then feel sorry for – everything they’ve done. They have to own up to how badly they’ve screwed up. It also puts all of their transgressions in one place to prove to them just how out of control their addiction is and that they need help. He’s done at least 3 of them in his lifetime to family and the court.
So the disclosure isn’t really meant for us it’s for them… even though we’re demanding it. Weirdly enough though the victims (in my convict husbands case) or us (i would never call us victims) can benefit too. It sucks to have to wait when we want answers “now” to make decisions moving forward but disclosures are nasty awful things that aren’t pleasant for anyone. Really it’s best to give it some time and get some distance from the situation beforehand.
I say this because my addict has supposedly put together a disclosure for the last 10 years I’ve known him that he is planning to read to me tomorrow night – I actually demanded it two weeks ago, but knowing the above I knew it would take him some time.
Fortunately I’ve known about this addiction from the beginning and have watched him like a hawk. I already know a good portion of what’s going to be in this… but I also know that there is a good deal I’m not aware of yet, and that scares me. He knows it’s honesty or divorce at this point.
I’ve promised myself to leave my taser and 10 inch kitchen knife in the car when I meet him in the hotel later. It’s going to be a long weekend. I keep telling myself its only 2 days – then he’s out of my life again for a few months.
I have the same problem. Husband is always nice. Even when he’s off the wagon he’s nice. Spiritual, attends church, prays. Says all the time how much he hates himself and what he’s doing. Other than the prostitutes there is no reason for me to believe I couldn’t have a happy marriage. Just one “minor” detail. Yeah.
I’ve had and heard a lot of crappy “therapists” and yours hits the bottom of the list. She’s talking out of her ass not her head. Some therapists get it… other therapists are so screwed up they need therapists themselves – and a straight jacket at a funny farm. You are in no way responsible for any of this. Your SA doesn’t even have you in his head when he’s acting out you’re so far removed from this. Fire this chicks ass – she’s probably having an illicit affair herself anyway.
I wrote a blog post once on an epiphany I had – one of those times that I just couldn’t wrap my head around how the hell he could be living two completely separate lives and do it so well. He’d gotten really good at hiding the shame. It was called boxes.
See imagine closet with a whole bunch of boxes stuffed in there. They are all different sizes some are at the front of the closet, some are buried at the back covered in dust. All of them have nice tight lids. When a man wants to deal with something he goes to the closet, rummages through it to find the right box, chooses a box and accomplishes whatever the box requires. Then he puts the lid back on, puts it back in the closet and shuts the door. If he wants a different box the whole process is followed again. The contents of one box are never allowed to see daylight or mix with the contents of any other box.
Then theres the woman. Picture not a closet but a giant storage room. There are shelves, everything is dusted and neatly organized in see through boxes and there are very few lids in sight. The woman knows where everything is, by area, shelf, box and position in the box. She walks regularly through the storage room cataloging stuff in her head. Multiple boxes are out on the work table at once. The important ones never get put away. She spends all day in there and checks things two or three times a night as well.
Because of this insane difference in our brains there is no real way we will ever be able to understand that male mentality. How they can take their jobs, their kids, their happy homes, us, and forget that we even exist while they do the most horrid disgusting things I will never get.
When my sa first started escalating and I called him out I asked him if he had even bothered to take off his wedding ring for the massage. He said no. So some whore is out there laughing her ass off at the fact that she’s snared yet another married man and seeing herself as the “trophy” winner and him as the pitiful waste of human space out there. He on the other hand didn’t get it when I laid that all out for him. They are so far gone they are oblivious to the details.
If you look into his closet…he loves porn and he loves me and those two worlds never even occupy the same space in his head. We’ve discussed it repeatedly. I have my box and the porn has its – and he only plays with one of us at a time.
It makes a person feel pretty worthless just to be the next toy sitting on the shelf waiting for their turn.
Thank you so much everyone for your posts. I married my husband understanding he was addicted to sex. He understood he was addicted to sex. He’s seen counselors, been in treatment programs, and as I was married to a complete narcissist the first time around I know he’s not a narcissist, thank goodness, even though he’s self-focused. He’s quite humble most of the time because he know’s he’s screwed up repeatedly and it’s his own fault. If anyone ever questions if sex addiction is real – I’ve got proof. His addiction varies with his depression level, and he was holding his own for the first 6 years of our marriage. The last two he’s gone completely haywire and regressed slowly to where we are now.
I’ve dropped the rope, While I have no intention of letting him back into my life any time soon, I still believe there is some hope for him. Someone has to the poor man is a wreck. It’s all geared toward what he’s willing to do right now – and he seems to be taking the right steps.
I’m moving forward without him, but I have no plans of ever trusting the male sex again. The distance between us now helps. I just don’t get how I get past seeing him in my head standing in some whores living room – and worse. I’m trying to find some way to get that garbage out of my head. Maybe it just takes time…
You guys all sound like pros… and if it hasn’t really worked out for anyone here I doubt theres much hope for anyone.
Thanks for the replies. I’m really troubled by his insinuation that one talk is going to make this better. Any humor he might be trying out as per his MO is falling flat right now. He’s not taking any of this seriously yet. I realized after thinking a little more about it all that dinner can’t happen. Even if I wanted to talk to the ass right now I don’t think I could stomach being in the same car or table as him. What exactly are we going to chat about anyway? His whores? Not in a public restaurant.
I had some friends that were wanting to go catch dinner soon. I think that first night he’s here would be a perfect night to get away and do something for me. I called his sister today and let her know what was going on and asked her to pick him up and take him to his hotel. I’ll still have to deal with him at the birthday parties, but there will be lots of other family around. After that I don’t have to worry about when I’ll see him again. It will probably be a few more months.
Even in a divorce I’ll have to see and deal with him. He’ll always be “in and out” of their lives. They’re too young to see past who’s going to feed them breakfast in the morning, they are just happy to see whomever whenever daddy or not. They might get a vibe that something is wrong in their lives, but they don’t have the capacity to understand the situation as it stands. My son still thinks he’s going to marry his sister when he grows up. As long as they are safe and in a loving situation they are good – and we have that here.
Besides, it’s illogical to think that just because he’s screwed multiple whores at this point that he will never see his kids again ever, or that I could even make that happen. Parties will still exist. He will still see the kids. When they are older I can bow out. Right now I don’t leave them alone with many people at all and then not for more than a few hours – so yes I will be there for this visit. Probably puking in my mouth every time I look at him. I’m not going to make it pleasant contact for him with me, but other than me severely limiting his time with them while he’s here (already arranged) – he will still be at his party. He’s here to see the kids and I’ll be in the background.
I’m not confused on the timeline or what I said. My kids are toddlers. when he first left 5 months ago they asked daily where he was and what he was doing. We repeated the same info daily for 2 months – this is where daddy is, this is what he’s doing. That has stopped now. I made sure that they called to talk to him every morning and night until now. Being young the calls didn’t last long because they don’t have that kind of attention span. Until a few days ago plans were still in place to move to him so there was no reason not to I was keeping their relationship in place.
Now I have stopped doing that. And the kids don’t think or care to ask because he’s such a small part of their lives. My sa knows not to call here, and we aren’t calling him. He also knows we’re officially separated. He’s still coming off his high right now and I don’t want them around that at all phone or otherwise. If he’s still not sober when he gets here for the weekend I have no problem dumping his ass at the hotel and leaving him there.
Update: What do you ladies think of this? I get an email from him tonight in response to one I sent two nights ago outlining the separation and his visit restrictions. He’s still not thinking clearly from the tone of the email…. but at the end he asks me if I want to go to dinner and talk the first night – and if he should reserve a private room so I can yell at him all I want “if that will help me”.
Does he think that me yelling at him is going to fix him? Punish him? Make him feel better? Get it out of my system so I’ll get over it faster? I’ve never yelled at him in our whole relationship. I find low, slow and cutting words to be a more effective way of getting my point across. He grew up with yelling, I didn’t. Maybe I should take his offer and lay into him? I feel it would just be wasting my breath at this point, but maybe he needs to have me lay it all out there for him.
I’m inclined to believe that dinner is a terrible idea, but we need to find a level playing field before the party, and he needs to know that I’m the gateway to his kids.
We are going to have to talk about this at some point. Right now even thinking of his face sickens me. Any coping techniques for getting the xxx porn reel visions out of your head?
Until 4 days ago he was talking to them by phone and Skype twice a day. (All facilitated by me as they are too young to arrange it) So He has been talking to them and they have a good relationship. We have been to see him and he has been to see us at christmas for 10 days. We are apart right now because he took a job in another state and I was wrapping up my job and our home here. I chose not to leave until May or we would have been there with him already.
This trip here in two weeks was planned months ago. He’s here to see his mom and sisters as well as us. I just didn’t expect him to go head first off the deep end and destroy our relationship two weeks before his arrival. The kids love their father and he loves them and I keep an eagle eye on the whole situation. They’ve never been alone with him at night. Because of his conviction he’ll never gain custody if it gets that far.
Even if we end up divorced he still has full interest in contact with them and while he will never gain custody he will have court ordered visitation either way. By law he still has a right to see them unless he lands himself in prison again – and by will of fierce protection I will be there with them the whole time he’s with the kids.
Just not looking forward to seeing the bastards face or spending the day with him. I’ve danced the separation dance before so I know how to play a lot better than he does. If he’s out of line I can dump him back at the hotel and his family can get him back to the airport.
It would be nice to think that I could simply wipe him out, but he is a father and he does have an interest in keeping his rights. I’d rather keep my enemy close at this point.
Thanks Moving… I wasn’t always so put together. I know I’m suffering from PTSD. The first few years we were together I would cry at the drop of a hat. I had studied a lot about sex addiction before I married the man. We dated for 3 years and waited 2 after that to have our son – and we’re older. I knew going in that the addiction wasn’t about me. I’ve reinforced consequences for a long time, although it’s never easy.
We’ve had some awesome times together and buried under the huge load of shit he has a decent heart. He’s just seriously messed up right now and I’m not sure he’s coming back from it this time. Quite frankly I’m not willing to deal with him if he does.
It’s actually pretty easy to look at the situation objectively when you’ve been through it over and over. Rarely do I even cry any more. Some day’s I think this relationship has messed me up more than he is.
Thanks everyone. I’m getting stronger every day as reality sets in. It also helps that I’ve been working with him for 10 years. These decisions I’m making were actually made years ago… just waiting for a reason (I prayed wouldn’t happen) to implement them. When he moved for the job the reality of what he could get himself into was a huge cloud in the back of my brain. I hoped it wouldn’t happen – but I’ve been cautious this whole time and didn’t have far to fall .
Still amazed how warped he’s gotten. He want’s so badly to be rid of the addiction (honestly he really does) but when the temptation hits he does little to change his path. He’s created a decent support structure for himself out where he’s at so it’s made it easier to drop the rope on my end. I know that there are some not so pretty days ahead of me still.
Update:
Thanks for all your kind – and not so kind words. I really need the kick in the butt and it hurts a hell of a lot less than the revelations of the last few days.
“We are like loyal cheerleaders for a losing team” Yeah… I saw a cheerleader get knocked unconscious at a university game once. Not a pretty site. That’s how I’m feeling today.
Bonnieb – did he really go back for a masters in Chinese medicine?!? Holy cow that is right up my SA’s alley. Where do they get this from? He’s done EFT, martial arts, every oddball diet out there, paid thousands to a gym to “realign” everything, had individual counseling with some martial arts guru to clear his psyche, redirected his “energy” into writing, coin collecting, started a blog (all only lasted a few weeks), had his aura read, acupuncture, massage – which of course went down hill really fast. Yet the things he should do he won’t touch with a 10 foot pole. After what I saw the other night talking to him he should start with an exorcist and go from there.
At the end of the conversation I had with my husband the other night I told him not to contact us for 2 weeks while I get my head on straight and because I can’t talk to him “drunk”. He wasn’t getting anything that I was saying. He couldn’t even think of answers. We’ll see if he dries out by the time the TO is over and then I’ll be able to take the next step. Nothing I say or do right now will phase him. He is too far down the rabbit hole.
He sent me an apology letter today filled with all the same crap. I’m sure you ladies know how it goes – I love you, I’m sorry, Im not in a good place right now, I understand you’re upset but “this” is why I lie to you (yeah me keeping myself and the kids safe), he’s also outlined all his plans to be good… I can tell he’s too far gone this time to follow through with them all. This weekend is going to be another hell for him. I can read him like a book some days.
I’ve made arrangements with my current living situation for me and the kids to stay here as long as I need to get my feet under me and get settled. If I can stay here till Christmas that would help get me launched again. I feel so lucky that we have hundreds of miles between us already and have had so much time to get used to this separation already. The kids stopped asking about him months ago so the missing Skype calls at night haven’t even phased them. I’m planning on telling him in a few days that he can consider us separated – not that it will make much difference having been apart for 5 months already.
I’m sorry but I still haven’t reached the “I’m divorcing him” stage yet. It’s not something to just jump right into. Been there done that bought the book. I know what it entails, I know I can make it through it – I just am not ready to take that journey yet.
I’ve also made arrangements for a hotel for him when he visits here in two weeks. It’s too late to change those plans and it’s for my son’s birthday so I don’t want to disappoint him. No reason he has to stay here with us though.
Thanks again for the thought that the STDS could take months to years to manifest. That’s one risk I will not take with him. I’ve resigned myself to a life of celibacy. It’s a hell of a lot better than the alternative. I still can’t get over the fact that he had no intention of telling me about any of it – ever. That is the main force driving me through this hard time.
I appreciate so much your comments and insights. I am in a very good place right now – even if my partner is screwing hookers. I plan to stay here for a while and see how things sort out.
I learned a huge lesson during my first divorce. I had so much anger to deal with it was eating me alive. I always thought the opposite of anger was love – and it’s nearly impossible to turn anger into love -but it’s not. It’s pity. I found that with just a twist I could redirect all of my burning anger toward my ex and turn it into a much healthier feeling of pity. Didn’t help me hate the bastard any less – but took a whole load off of out of control emotion off of my shoulders… and it’s easy to feel sorry for less than human beings when they’re screwing up their own lives.
JoAnn, I don’t know you – and yet you have no idea how much of an influence you’ve been on my life over the last two years. You were the first person I’d ever “met” that was trying to keep a marriage going with a sex addict. You taught me that not only was it possible, but that it was ok that life wasn’t peaches and cream every day. I love that you have bad days too because you are my hero and it only helps me feel ok about myself too. (not that you should have bad days – just saying’) The sun will still come up tomorrow for all of us :o)
bonnieb, I wonder if you are still with your husband or if you were able to break away? How did it work out for you?
I’m so glad we’re currently separated. It is making this 100x easier on me to break the last ties. Quite frankly he’s so possessed right now that I couldn’t have a reasonable conversation with him if I tried. He’s on a 2 week time out from me and the kids. I’ll see where the time takes our paths in life.
Since he was with hookers I already have been letting it sink in that my life with or without him will never be the same as it was 3 days ago.
Courtney, thank you you nailed it. Thanks to some really poor choices he made early in the marriage we are broke and couldn’t afford a real counselor for more than a few sessions. He’s also living in a fantasy world that has the “magic pill” all ready to go – he just has to find it. As long as it reeks of “experimental” or “homeopathic” he’s all over trying to get it to work. He hasn’t gotten anywhere
I didn’t sign up for this level of acting out even though I knew it was a possibility. I’ve been through the ringer a dozen times over but we worked through it. After this latest revelation I just have some serious decisions to make.
