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Such a good topic, Artemis. I echo what so many have already said – my H is not a sociopath, but he truly struggles (is essentially unable) to understand my experience of what he’s done to me and to our family in any real or resonating way. There has always been something missing – even when he’s trying to be nice or compliment me. And his gift giving always seemed to be more about him than about me.
In general, and as we clearly see in this thread of posts, there is a spectrum of pathology – from the “run of the mill” jerk to the narcissist to the full on sociopath. For those on the narcissist/sociopath end of the spectrum, true empathy is and always will be elusive. They can fake it, but scratch the surface and it will become abundantly clear that whatever pseudo empathy they are putting forth comes only from the intellect and not from their true self, heart and soul. I think it would be very difficult for me to live with a man who I felt was constantly faking it (she says, with seeming confidence, after doing just that for the past ten years). Well at least I figured it out in the end, right?I agree w NAP regarding projection – I think these guys project all the time and many of THEM are borderline. You are not.
Thank you for all of your support. Christine – you always have a way of bringing me back to reality. It is definitely a grieving process and I need to accept that. The loss of my intact family (or at least what I thought was an intact family) is profoundly sad, and it will take time but I have to believe it is the right thing for me to do. Hugs.
Bev – I do think this is the right decision – after ten months of separation I can still barely look at him, let alone think about sharing a bed with him. It’s just so sad. This isn’t the life I wanted for my kids or for myself. I know I’m not alone in that. I’m just still filled w so much anger about all this.
Diane – you’re right – I do want to model for my daughters a healthy relationship – one in which their mother doesn’t cringe every time their father comes near her. One in which their mother has a voice that is valued.
Monique, NAP and jomard – I can only hope my kids will end up appreciating or at least not hating me for my decision. I want to believe there is a better and happier life on the other side of this.Im not a religious person, if such a place exists, there must be a special place in Hell for these guys. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It seems plain wrong that the unemployed spouse would be left high and dry without health insurance.
Sending love and support. What a sick fuck. And to blame you for his pathology – straight out of the playbook but on a whole other level. Don’t let him get to you. Idaho can have him.
Hugs,
AnneFC – that reply really hits home for me. I want to tape it to my wall. That is for sure the life I would have and I don’t want that life. Period. Divorce and being a single mom is terrifying but at least there is some hope for something better.
Katf – infidelity is def the thing that negates the contract. As the haze of my relationship clear, I’m starting to get more in touch w my own core values and that is one of them.Thank you all for your insighful comments. Some days I feel so clear about my decision to move forward w the divorce and other times I feel terrified and wonder if he can change. I do think I spend too much time looking at the minutiae – the big stuff like Karen pointed out (do I even like him? Do I love him? Do I trust him?) is where the answers lie, I think. If the answer to those questions is a pretty clear “no” then giving him another chance “for the kids” seems pretty silly. The words not matching up w behavior concept has been a consistent theme in my individual therapy.And my therapist has said to me time and again, over the past ten months there has been NO consistent data to suggest that he has changed in any substantive way (aside from the fact that there has not been any additional cheating, that I know of – I actually do believe he hasn’t tho). So, I can give him another shot, if I want but I need to be crystal clear that this decision would be based on nothing but words.
Rj – I feel this way ALL THE TIME. I think it depends on which side he decides to present to me that moment. If its the kind, reasonable, caring side then I start to feel really sorry for him, that his life is in a shambles, that he’s pretty much lost everything. If its the manipulative, selfish prick side, then I just want to rip his face off. I think that’s part of why these guys are so confusing, because they are totally inconsistent. And they make you question – which is “real?” Is he really a selfish prick who pretends to be nice sometimes or is he really a nice person who acts like a prick as a defense sometimes? The hardest thing I’ve learned in my own therapy is that, although it would be easier to see him as one or the other, the truth is that he is BOTH. The question is – do I want someone who has the capacity to be so very selfish and so very manipulative even if he also has the capacity to be kind and sweet sometimes? I deserve better. We all do.
Christine – it really helps to feel like I’m not alone in this. He has been laying it on thick since I filed for divorce – all the words I’ve been waiting for since this nightmare began. I don’t think he ever thought I’d leave him. It’s hard though, to feel like I’m walking away when he “has so much to show me and tell me.” I have to remember its a ploy to get cake (a la CL – love her!).
Wow, you ladies are truly inspiring. I feel like I’ve been spinning my wheels trying to figure out whether I want to move forward or divorce my h and have been able to do little else. BUT, as Im writing, im realizing i have made some changes – I have started running more and my brother and I are running a half marathon in October. I’ve also made it a point to spend quality time with my close friends. I had a great vacation w my kids, parents, brother, best friend and her family this summer. Anyway, thank you for making me realize that I have accomplished some things.
And I guess the biggest is that I’ve decided to get a divorce.Daisy – c’mon! 50 is the new 40!! The bottom line, though, is I agree w the sisters about how important it is to surround ourselves w friends and family who love and value us. If there’s a spouse on that list, great, but having a shitty spouse versus being single but with a few loving friends/ family? I think I would choose the latter (in my stronger moments, that is).
Feelingconflicted – thank you for your thoughts. I think it does help me to think about the 0.000001% chance that over the years he may truly change and if we really should be together then we will.Update – he is suddenly agreeing with everything I ask in terms of the kids. WTF?!? I think he has talked to a lawyer who told him that he has to do whatever I say so that I will take the suicidality off the table legally. It is so hard bc it really does seem like he has this “good and reasonable” side and it feels so good to interact w that person – makes me feel like maybe we have a chance at a collaborative divorce, but then there’s the “nasty and manipulative” side that is a total wild card. I want to believe he’s being reasonable bc that’s how he really feels but I also believe he wants something and that’s the only reason he’s being nice.
I’m a stay at home mom. I am “employable” but I’m not currently working – I’ve been home since my first was born more than three years ago (my second is close to two).
Thank you so much for all the love, support, and helpful words. I’m sick that after repeatedly cheating on me, he’s likely going to get to spend more time w our little ones and I will get less. How is that fair? And it goes without saying that he doesn’t see or appreciate or feel bad about this injustice. Why would he?
Anyway, I hope I’m not giving up too soon or not giving him enough of a chance. This whole argument about how he can’t show me how much he’s changed or how sorry he is bc he’s separated from the kids just doesn’t make sense to me. Does it make sense to anyone else?
Thanks again.Thanks Bev and Lynn. I just wish I was a better decision maker. This whole situations feels so unfair. And I know that sounds so whiny and I hate that bc I’m not typically a whiner, I’m the one who “sucks it up” yet in this case I can’t help but feel so pissed. About all of it.
I have felt so stuck and have done all of the things listed in that poem and I still feel stuck. It will happen, in its own time, and I need to have faith in that. Thank you.
OMG, reading these text exchanges reminds me so much of my h. Exhausting is the perfect descriptor. I’m so sorry you and your son have to endure this. I am sending you positive thoughts. xoxo, Anne
Lynn,
My kids are 2 and 3 so I don’t have a lot of wise words, unfortunately, but I can only begin to imagine the terror you must have felt all the while trying to keep it together during part of a job interview. My kiddos can throw me for a loop and they can’t even ride in a car without a car seat yet, let alone drive away on their own. It sounds to me like you are being a caring and responsible mom in the face of a lot of other stressors.
Sending you hugs and good thoughts.NAP, Thank you for that description of the man I wish he could be versus the man he is. Your support means so much.
xoxo, AnneI agree, Jenny. Thank you for sharing that, March. I hadn’t thought about it that way before. It makes sense to me though. Thank you again. xoxo
Thank you so much for the support. It means so much to me. It’s actually heartening to hear that even as a quick decision maker it took you a year to figure this out lisak. I am a very slow decision maker so perhaps I’m right on track 😉
I just feel robbed. Of my hopes for my family, for my kids and somehow feel now that the pressure of the decision and the consequences of said decision are all on my shoulders.
One of my close friends told me the other day that I needed to stop being “the victim” and take control of the situation. I know she meant well and I do agree that I need to be more proactive somehow but I’m not sure I’m ready to do more than I’ve already done.Well said, Bev. These are complex problems that (IMHO) the scientific/psychiatric/psychological community have yet to figure out. Some of these guys are true sociopaths with no remorse, some narcissists who believe they just deserve to have sex with whoever they want, some are survivors of childhood sexual abuse trying to master the pain that was inflicted on them, some are just pervs who can’t achieve orgasm when engaging in intimate sex ( it has to be nameless, objectified), etc, etc. and several combinations of the above… To treat them all the same would be a mistake, but parsing out who is who can be difficult for a professional, let alone a layperson.
I totally agree with Bev – the work only begins when they stop all the sexual behaviors. The uphill climb is that process of becoming “human.” And for each SA, that work can look very different, but what isn’t different is the TIME it will take to really do it. IMO, it’s on the order of YEARS, if ever.
