[hanna]

“da-daa… pa-da pa-dah- pa-dah… stop fooling around…”
😀

[hanna]

Yep. It’s either you or him. no-one else. legally.

[hanna]

Jo Ann,
you did not stir up hornets nest here. Not at all. You are welcome to use any of my posts/comments if you think they are helpful. IF YOU THINK THEY REALLY WOULD BE HELPFUL. Which I doubt.

Once again I have an image in my head of men talking to women at a mosque, or a confessional through “an invisible wall”. People of opposing sex having a conversation about real issues (sans sex).

Talking about what is really important.

It is really hard to imagine a man being interested to hear anything I have to say about anything. And I know I am smart. And I I know I and 40D size 10/12.

It is your call JoAnn. You let us respond to some of the comments they have.

It is just really hard to imagine… being a man in a woman’s world.

[hanna]

all of my dreams are metaphorical and symbolic. I am Jungian in my dreams. One doesn’t even have to be! The dreams are so real. The symbols end up revealing themselves.

[hanna]

Bev,

seriously?!!

You falling for THAT!! Even my kids hum to the “white t-shirts” song… why would you set yourself up?

Give away your soft spot? your underbelly?

gimme a break, girl, you smarter than that.

[hanna]

Ellen
Thank you
Hanna
😉

[hanna]

Forget about the stink and the hose. Just walk away. Walk away. Walk away. Find temporary shelter until you are strong enough to take care of yourself.

I blamed myself for most of the time. HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO STUPID? What if I had been more flexible, more rad, more sexy, more open-minded? Well, there is no way you could have been more accomodating!!

Why didn’t I check his bank account? Why didn’t I ask for physical proof as in “black on white’ piece of paper to tell me how the money was? Well, I did! And I got a sticky note with a number that was what I wanted it to be.

We got duped by the best. My ex worked for the President’s helicopter squadron as a fiscal accountant. A prestigious command for the Marines of the United States of America. Because he graduated top of his class in the military. Because the freakazoid can calculate the fucking end of the world in his fucking head with the accuracy of the fucking 60 000 fucking fiscal accountants in this fucking country!!!

I am sorry for my language. But I am so angry about the shit that gets smeared on us when it is THEIR fucking fault!!! When they spent every waking moment thinking about how they could deceive us. THAT IS WHY WE GOT DUPED! Not because we are stupid, but because someone put sooooo much energy into lying to their spouse.

Boy, do I feel special!!

[hanna]

anniem: I try to use that image in my healing even if it is so strange to me. I have never wanted to admit I was victim. I am pretty tomboy, hardcore, badass “a female schauvinist”??. Yet, now I feel I am finally old enough to admit I am a girl. I just wanna be held… fo’ real.

Anybody wanna make fun of that? Meet me at the parking lot after school. You and me!

[hanna]

You go, Mama!! I have that same power! So does my auntie, whom I admire.

My kids have finally ( after 1 month with dad) asked to come home and spend time with me, because “they want to do crafts and experiments with me”. 🙂

There is nothing like Mom Power!!! As we all know, we CAN read minds!!!

[hanna]

Thanks, Bev. We all will be fine in the end. We all will be FANTASTIC!!! 🙂

[hanna]

In an ideal world all of us wounded would come together and heal; however, I am afraid of predators. We all know how deviant the SA’s can be. They will come and post on a site like this (if we were co-ed) just to get a piece of the action. (YES I KNOW I AM PARANOID!! The anonymity would be gone. I am afraid of the dating websites because people may actually want to contact me…)

On the same token, my heart yearns for someone of the opposite sex, and a differing point of view, on this matter. Us women are objectified left and right in the media, yet I cannot help but think about men who have to deal with the “love addicts”, “gold diggers” or what ever you want to call them. Town whores. Floozies. We all know them.

Well, think about the other side of the coin. Men who want a human, a woman, with whom they can talk, and they meet “the superwoman” who promises everything (even more that the ol’ Scarlett could). Not only are they going to get the trophy wife, the sex slave, but a brilliant career woman too!! And what do they end up with? A floozy, a druggie, a cheater, a flunkie, an actual hardcore junkie… I know it’s not common occurrence, but I have seen it too. Long distance relationships in the military…. need I say more…

I remember dating boys, and having friends in college, who wanted to talk to me because of things I had to say. Because I had an opposing point of view. Or maybe just a DIFFERENT point of view. I remember opposing to things just for the sake of argument… (some of my fondest memories of my short life of 40 years 😉 ) I remember being “equal” with someone, albeit very different, opposing as sexes can be, whilst still… well equal.

At what point did we begin to argue over the illusion of “woman’s place”, or “man’s duties” (I am not even going with the role playing in bed) when we should have looked at the real human beings behind the “roles” we are supposed to play in this society? Who are the people supporting this [your] community? Mothers? Fathers? SA’s? Floozies? Junkies? Jerry Sandusky…?

Who is going to have the guts to say to someone: “You’re so f**d up, man/woman!”? Who is going to point out the delusion of/by marketing the botox, boy-shorts, or perfect complexion? Or Audi A4 (5 or whatever the decade may be by now)?

As you can see I am sick and tired of gender roles we are supposed to fill. And how marketing feeds on these illusions of how men or women should be. At what point can we call SA a cultural disease, or a personality disorder? Can a personality disorder really depend on a culture? What about heart disease? I know I am getting theoretical here, but if we are looking for a diagnosis for SA these are the questions we should be asking ourselves.

[hanna]

OMG -that is all I can say about the competency test. OMG. He should have to take it too.

Agoraphobia – I have it too. I go to work and that’s it. I never go anywhere. I do go out with my kids but if they are with their dad, I stay home. I feel just as “crazy”. I am paranoid. Absolutely paranoid of men especially. I am so afraid of them that I cannot join a dating website because they may actually answer my ad. I cannot trust ANYONE. While ago a police officer told me that is how many of them end up. They hear so many lies from people that they never trust anyone.

Last week I went to have a pedicure. (All the advice on this site kept ringing in my head: “Take care of yourself. Make it your priority”.) The lady gave me a reflexology massage and found a sore spot in the middle of my foot. It hurt soooo goood. When I got home, I took a 2 hour nap. Next day I had a nap. Day after I slept for 12 hours, and the day after that for 10 hours. I felt sooo good. She really did something to me with that massage!

Of course I had to look it up and the point on my foot is connected to kidney meridian which is about fear, and paranoia!!! I started to study more about reflexology and the kidney meridian and OMG!!! It all makes sense! All my medical issues. It even explains why it feels like I am going deaf! All the physical symptoms are from longterm fear, inability to trust, paranoia… all our emotions will manifest in our body sooner or later.

I am going to give the TCM/reflexology/acupuncture a try. One of the meditations really touched me. It talked about treating yourself (or a fearful person) like a little scared child. That is how I feel. Inside me is a little girl with pigtails, sucking her thumb and holding a teddy bear. Weird. Sometimes when I cry I even do the “dry heaving” like the kids do. The sobs that go on even after the crying is done. Weird.

Don’t think you are psycho. Just traumatized. You can, and you will heal. We all will.

<3 <3 <3

[hanna]

Couple of months ago I had a dream where I was hugging my ex, Oh so happy to see him. Then I realized what I was doing, and who he was, and I felt the hate and the disgust creep in. I started to wipe my arms off as if they had become dirty from him. I woke up wiping my arms.

Two nights ago I was held hostage at a bank. I was with my kids…

[hanna]

Welcome Lisa!!

Would love to hear your story! even in bits and pieces!

hugs,
Hanna

[hanna]

Hi WJS,
someone asked me recently why I hadn’t told them about my ex’s addiction. I told them “…because it wasn’t my secret to tell.” I was referring to the AA step where you have to come clean and “confess” to as many people as possible. As soon as I had said it I realized it wasn’t my secret to keep either.

I try to be open about it but it is the very next question that people ask that keep me from talking about it with others: “Well, you did take care of his needs, didn’t you?”

Here we all know there is nothing you could have done differently to keep him from SA. To me it is such a relief to talk to others who know that.

Nice to meet you!

[hanna]

“Happy” by Tracy Chapman

Should be happy to be loved
Happy to be
Unburdened by the thought
I could still be lonely
I think you’re the one
Everyone agrees
But some can see the face of love
And turn away in disbelief

Every time we get close
I just run
And the wind on my face
Last rays of the sun
Shine on my skin
My heart slow me down
Is all that I can feel
All that I can feel
All that I can feel
All that I can feel

Should be happy to be loved
Happy to be
With someone who knows
And understands me
I think you’re the one
Everyone agrees
But some can touch the hand of love
And pull away in disbelief

Every time we get close
I just run
And the wind on my face
Last rays of the sun
Shine on my skin
My heart slow me down
Is all that I can feel
All that I can feel
All that I can feel
All that I can feel

Should be happy to be loved
Happy to be
Possessed by nothing but
A heart that’s chosen freely
I think you’re the one
Everyone agrees
But some can feel the grace of love
And walk away in disbelief

Every time we get close
I just run
And the wind on my face
Last rays of the sun
Shine on my skin
My heart slow me down
Is all that I can feel
All that I can feel
All that I can feel
All that I can feel

All that I can feel
All that I can feel
All that I can feel
All that I can feel

Should be happy to be loved
Happy to be

Should be happy to be loved
Happy to be

[hanna]

Their lawyers are telling them to watch it. SA is not quite as unknown problem as one might think. Divorce lawyers sometimes know what they are up against with SA clients. It all depends on state.

As a military spouse, I am lucky, I come to find out. The military as an institution, and the free legal services, and the family services that they offer are very knowledgeable about SA, as I come to find out. They have adviced him to be on his best behavior. They told him to take care of his children, (and even his wife) so that he cannot be seen as someone abandoning or deserting his family. His commanding officers can give him a direct order to do just about anything. Technically, if he were to disobey, it could be considred a treason!!! Would you believe that one?

SA is not some obscure problem of which just a few of our hubbies suffer. There are many lawyers, judges, and therapists who know what is all about. It is not any different from any other addiction. Any judge that deals with drug/ alcohol /gambling addicts has heard the same excuses. They weren’t born yesterday.

If you don’t have a lawyer who knows the in-and-outs about SA, find one, or educate him/her. SA may not be a diagnosable disease by the DSM but still, there is plenty of literature out there you may be able to use to sway a judge that is “real”.

The military CSAT that we saw talked about an “epidemic” among military, especially. Maybe a lawyer that specializes in military divorces. They may have the expertize you need.

PS. That movie. “Sleeping With The Enemy”!!!! I used it as an example to my friends as how I feel about my marriage. And they all can see my point of view a whole lot better. If not entirely!

[hanna]

besides a guardian ad litem, or an advocate, how about a new therapist/second opinion? Any therapist that says he needs to get beat up on playground is just a quack. Yes, there is the possibility that you are an overprotective parent, but you know what: your son will have decades to shake that mantle.

Most psychiatrists/therapists working with children try to avoid diagnosis, as should you. You do not want your son to be forever labeled as “ADD”, “ODD”, “Asperger’s”, or even gifted-and-talented, if that is really not befitting.

Do not become the victim of the “system”. Find a second opinion. Always find a second opinion. Children grow and change by the minute. We all have to afford them that right. Especially if you suspect your son is on the Asperger’s spectrum, you will need an Autism specialist. They don’t care about the diagnosis, they deal with the “quirks”. They look at things inductively, intuitively.

[hanna]

tell him you are sick and tired of bad sex and the feeling of exploitation afterwards. I mean bad sex is one thing if you love someone, but the exploitation is a whole another story.

Tell him you would much prefer someone who is great in bed without a need for an “entourage”.

[hanna]

sexual identity? yeah… so… no-one has that. To echo off of the other girls here it is just gobbeltygook. Sexual identity should be something that is not permanent. “Sex” or “making love” is an experience shared with 2 (or more) people and it is dependent on a situation between partners. One is not going to have the same “sex” with different people! “Sexual identity” is a theoretical term. Or some fad.

My ex told me he felt inferior to me in be because he wasn’t quite as “experienced in bed” as I was ( which was a translation from: he hasn’t had quite a many parnters as I had… unfortunately it is a numbers game, we are talking about men here. And if you ever repeat this I will deny, deny, deny the fact that I have had more partners than him which may have been the truth at the time of our marriage when he was only 23, and before he went psycho on lust) so he thought he needed to “explore his sexuality’ a bit further. Which was his way of saying, maybe there is something better out there that I have not experienced yet.

Take that for what you may. He/AND your SAH was honest admitting that his sexuality (“sexual identity”) is more important to him than your feelings.
Sorry. I know it sucks and it hurts.

To avoid the weight loss and hair loss. Go see a smart lady doctor. She can get you the referrals you need, prescriptions you need. Just make sure you talk to a female. Been there, done that. I do not deal with male therapists, nor male primary care physicians. If yo don’t think your female PCP isn’t feminine enough find one with a heart/ soul/ and desire to listen to your psychosomatic concerns. They are not to be dismissed as a joke/hysteria. They are often a serious health concern. LISTEN TO YOUR HEART. LISTEN TO YOUR INTUITION. Find a professional someone to listen to you.
With all the love (and even the anger your SAH’s words evoke in me) in my heart…
Hanna

[hanna]

You know, I downloaded one of the books recommended here “The Sociopath Next Door” by Dr. Stout. and I was not terrified by the socipathic traits or whatever. I mean yes, I was, but I also ended up feeling so sorry for them. What a dreadrful scenery of one’s soul!!! Never to experience love, despair, or the bittersweet in between??!!

I now know my SAH is not a sociopath but I also know some other people who have come to my life who are. And how PD and sociopathy are such a fine line. I also was able to realize why I am in so much pain. Why some people feel pain so much stronger than others. Why guilt is sometimes a real life saver for some people. ( I am actually relieved now that my SAH is Catholic because if he never had anybody to teach him guilt… he really would be a sociopath!!)

And I look at us women, I do believe it is the curse and the gift of us women to feel love and pain, and to do it in the same fucking sentence while we are laughing until tears run down our faces! Without this richness, the palette of emotion, there would be no human life!! No more babies would survive. No more children would learn the limits of our love. They would never be able to explore the twilight of crazy, if we weren’t so willing to love them no matter what. They know exactly how far they can go, which buttons to push. They know where love turns to resentment. And our poor husbands, who had no mothers, now explore the path from resentment to hate.

And it is all because of the grace of our love. The mercy. The ability to love and accept no matter what.

Thank you girls… Nobody on this site is perfect, but you’re the fucking best!!! 😉

[hanna]

So beautiful a trophy golden beauty.
His eyes slice her back.
The exquisite white fins flutter
Insipid the liquid of the pellucid bowl.
Wish she had one snaggletooth.
The pre-emptive ugly.

[hanna]

like Metallica, man:
Sad But True!!!

Look it up:

Hey,
I’m your life
I’m the one who cares
They
They betray
I’m your only true friend now
They
They’ll betray
I’m forever there

I’m your dream, make you real
I’m your eyes when you must steal
I’m your pain when you can’t feel
Sad but true

I’m your dream, mind astray
I’m your eyes while you’re away
I’m your pain while you repay
You know it’s sad but true
Sad but true

You
You’re my mask
You’re my cover, my shelter
You
You’re my mask
You’re the one who’s blamed
Do
Do my work
Do my dirty work, scapegoat
Do
Do my deeds
For you’re the one who’s shamed

I’m your dream, make you real
I’m your eyes when you must steal
I’m your pain when you can’t feel
Sad but true

I’m your dream, mind astray
I’m your eyes while you’re away
I’m your pain while you repay
You know it’s sad but true
Sad but true

I’m your dream
I’m your eyes
I’m your pain
I’m your dream
I’m your eyes
I’m your pain
You know it’s sad but true

Hate
I’m your hate
I’m your hate when you want love
Pay
Pay the price
Pay for nothing’s fair

Hey
I’m your life
I’m the one who took you there
Hey
I’m your life
And I no longer care

I’m your dream, make you real
I’m your eyes when you must steal
I’m your pain when you can’t feel
Sad but true

I’m your truth, telling lies
I’m your reason alibis
I’m inside, open your eyes
I’m you

Sad but true

[hanna]

like!!!

We need a poetry page! Seriously. Poems are so cathartic!

[hanna]

lynng2-
your daughter is a beut! She sounds like a hoot.

And everyone else too, I see the strength of character in your children! Kudos to you all, moms!

What inspires me, too, yuuuup, you guessed it: kids! Not just my own, but the teenagers with whom I work. Even if I have decided to become an elementary teacher (in a round about way to get to my goal to be a school librarian: one has to be a teacher first…), it’s the teens who are the real reason why I have decided to become a teacher in the first place. I have so quickly forgotten all the cute things my own babies said/did when they were babies (maybe there were just too many to remember them all), and some of the stories these teens have trusted me with is just… WOW! How could you forget?!! Let me explain what kind of teens I am talking about:

Over the years I have always just “had a job”. As a military spouse you end up accepting jobs from all kinds of fields. (Retail: sales, customer service; Hospitality: bartender, busboy, the cleaning lady!!…etc etc) But one thing all my jobs have had in common is that within 6 months to a year I end up in a supervisory type of position with a bunch of teenagers to “manage”. Boy!! Lemme tell ya:

They are so alive! They have their dreams, their heartbreaks, their apprehensions (they would rather die than actually admit fear). They all act so tough yet they come crawling to me sometimes with: “Ms. Hanna… I was wondering if I could talk to you….” And then they unload these bombs about hangovers, and pills, or jerks they have dated, or their real dreams, or things that they are so excited about. Or mental illness! Or how they had this party at their parents house, and then… They think they are so badass and in reality they are sooooooo sweet and innocent, yet soooo… I have no other word to describe it but “alive”, but they are nobody’s punk, or bitch, or whatever the term they use.

They bow to no-one. They question EVERYTHING! They love to the point of pain. And they have their loyalties. And OH BOY! The morals: They know exactly what is right and wrong. True, that is the annoying part sometimes when they cannot see the different shades of gray, but the the life they carry, the vitality, the excitement, the energy!!

That is what keeps me going. I sit at my desk, or do some menial tasks, and they don’t realize that I listen to their conversations. Or maybe they do sometimes, but they just don’t care. (I am “old” to them, after all) And I cherish every laughter I must quell. I cannot even share the stories with anyone because then it would sound like I was ridiculing them. But how could I?!! I remember the same exact things I used to say!

And I feel young again, and yet, so grateful for my life experience, how ever shitty it may have been. And that’s sometimes all I have on them because they really are no dummies. And then I see how much of that is because they really do question EVERYTHING! That’s how I wanna be when I die!

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