How do you stand your ground and detach, too?

Hmm…. I could prolly come up with a couple little tidbits…. >:)

Karen,

Although maybe not easy to hear, I think you just offered excellent advice to anyone currently living with their SA for their own personal reasons and especially those who are considering bailing sometime in the future.

As you may know, this is not always easy to do. Even when I knew for a 100% fact that I would be filing/leaving in the near future- I still struggled with total detachment. All he had to do was be NICE to me, and although ultimately I was still positive the outcome would be the same (I would be leaving), I would still gladly engage in conversation with him, have a meal with him, etc. Sigh… It was almost like I had to take advantage when he was being “nice”, because it was so rare and all I ever really wanted in the first place. Ugh…

If he had time for me and was kind and showing any interest whatsoever…I chose to participate, even on my way out the door…. Sometimes even NOW. How sad. We all know I’m long gone (and I am) but still…. I’ll take his time and attention as long as he is being respectful, attentive, kind, etc. I don’t understand WHY, but I am just being honest and trying to figure it out, even though it doesn’t matter at ALL. I would never go back, but also, I would never turn my back on him either. Why IS THAT, I wonder? No kids…no ties except the boat till it sells… That’s it. Weird!?! Maybe even disturbing- but I’m tired of trying to explain the inexplicable.

Silver,

I REALLY appreciate what you said in your post because I feel certain it is true for almost all of us. I mean why wouldn’t it be? We loved them and we wanted them to love us…so naturally when they act loving…well we are starved right? We are emotionally starving so I completely understand what you are saying and I also understand what Lynn is experiencing too. Its just that I am far down this road and what I am suggesting to her (because I do think Lynn is going to leave) is the ONLY way I found that offered me any protection? I tried ALL of the other stuff…the endless conversations that go nowhere, the TRYING so hard to make him see how much pain I was in, the meltdowns, the verbal flayings, the endless scheaming to figure out how to control him and then to pay him back when I couldn’t…Oh yes, Silver …I have the teeshirt…on all the insanity fronts. 😉 And then I finally discovered the sheer magnitude ( not a naughty one night stand or two in some hotel in another city). I couldn’t BELIEVE all that could have been going on for years, in my home, in my bed. When I was loving to him. When I wasn’t loving to him…I was, as we all are…stunned. I made one last stand and risked EVERYTHING secure to get myself and his paycheck off that island. I sat through the therapy sessions in Singapore while we waited for his new work visa, I read and listened to his NEW stories about what had really happened over the years. I digested that the truth I was getting now was a damn sight more graphic than the one I got the first time I found out he wasn’t monogamous, or honest, or strong, or loving…or any of the things I thought he was? I rolled my eyes at the whole sex addiction recovery thing but played his game…knowing he would NEVER do what they were suggesting. And when he didn’t…I walked away. And I never tried again to control my husband’s cheating or his boundaries…because I knew he was something unimaginable…and I could never drop my guard again. That is when the power balance shifted in my favor and I no longer felt like a bag of trash someone threw out. I am sad, I hurt, I miss sex, I miss being a woman with a man, and loving my life. But I don’t miss being played, having my buttons pushed to the point I am homicidal, having that terrible feeling of selling myself out to someone who doesn’t deserve me, the play by play images, laying awake at night wondering what he is doing, and the terrible struggle to distinguish truth from fiction and most of all feeling helpless and completely out of control while someone dangles me on a string. I am still struggling. I am bitter and angry many days. Sometimes I let him take me out and laugh like old times.Sometimes I let him help me. Sometimes I look at him and wonder where that boy is that I married and loved for so long. BUT I never let him get the upper hand because I know where that would go. He is like Lynn’s husband, Heidi’s husband, Pam’s husband, your husband and anyone else who is living with a completely, illogical , selfish, bull shitting lunatic. I am not suggesting anyone has to be unkind for the sake of being unkind but if you know in your gut they are screwing you…why be pleasant and why waste your breath? What I am suggesting does work. It isn’t the answer for a lifetime but it does the trick short term. I know it sounds cold and vengeful and I am actually very warm and loving and kind. But there is no medal for being kind to men who hurt you repeatedly and want to exploit you. My husband did more than walk over me…he had me up against a wall and down on my knees. I fought back because I knew it was life or death…mine. Thats why you NEVER see me post any of those” he said, I said” conversations. I don’t bother talking. After what he did to me there is nothing to say. And if I feel softness toward him…I never let him see it. That priest in Bali was right. I cann’t afford another hit. Karen xx

PS I let him come with me to Singapore for my cancer checkup…partly because I was so drained by my Mom dying and partly to help me carry the bags.He had a check up himself and ended up having 2 stents put in his coronary arteries as he was over 70% blocked and couldn’t get his breath. He had to lay flat on his back for about 16 hours. I fed him,gave him his urinal, got him magazines and drinks and sandwiches, I sat with the cardilogist while he explained everything and I sat with him while he lay there unable to move. When I went to go back to the hotel he grabbed my arm and thanked me for helping him and said he really appreciated it. I said it was ok. But when I walked away I thought back to the night they found the cancer in my breast, and how I asked him to sit with me and how he said he was tired and wanted to go back to the hotel. He didn’t go to sleep though. He went and ordered a beer in the lounge and eyed up the scantily clad singer who performs in there regularly. I could never be like he is. I could never do to someone the things he has done. But I don’t have to put up with that anymore. Because I can just not see him or not talk to him or “be too tried to stay any longer”. Or I could have a ‘talk” about his lack of kindness….except I think I already tried that. You know….I don’t think I am having a very god week either? I am getting really sick of myself!

Lynn,
I understand what you are saying and I hope someone can help you! I’m out of answers. After reading Karen’s post, I’m wiped out and sick to my stomach. 🙁

Karen,
Thank you for sharing. I ache for you and shed more than just a few tears. You deserve so much better. Sigh…I think I’ll jump on the wagon and have a bad week myself! 🙁 Love ya, sister!

First let me say to Karen, that while you may be sick of yourself, I am not sick of you at all.

If I could just weigh in here for a moment, I’m wondering if there is a small but important distinction to be made. IMO, the detachment that Karen has described is not about punishing the SA, or creating a threat for him. It is about pursuing the healthiest option for the woman. It is about us standing up for ourselves in a way that does not depend on anything that the SA does or doesn’t do, doesn’t or doesn’t say. As long as we behave in a way that expects or looks for a response from the SA, we create the opportunity yet again for them to disappoint us, or us to disappoint ourselves. As I understand it, the behaviour that Karen chooses here isn’t looking for any response from him, although there may be one. Her choices are all about her. They suit her life, her priorities, her values.

I can feel your frustration Lynn. You want to stand up for yourself and you want him to know it, and possibly learn/change/be affected by that. But that’s not going to happen. That would presume a mutuality in your relationship that probably doesn’t exist. I’m suggesting here that it is far more compelling and powerful to stand up for yourself in ways that suit your priorities, regardless of the effect on the SA.

Could it be that your heart is not ready to leave him behind that way? There’s nothing wrong with that, Lynn. That’s just how we are wired, and where we are in the journey with this dreadful nightmare. It is a really devastating moment to turn from wanting and needing to “affect” our SA, to considering our next move without any real consideration of how his engagement with it will affect us. What changes in the relationship through a pattern of decisions made this way over time is quite significant. But the SA probably doesn’t really get it. The “permanent changes” are within the woman, and the way she live her life.
Personally I don’t recommend for long term, because I’m having fun in my life again by removing my SA, but I fully grasp how it may allow you to generate a safe place to wait out circumstances, for example, until filing for divorces is easier or has a better result for you.

Just my thoughts trying to unscramble the discussion. Take it or leave it, as usual, with my love for all of you in your struggles and strengths.
D.

Hi Lynn,

I am working on a piece about detachment as there seems to be a lot of discussion here on that subject, but I feel that your post needs a reply, so I will just give you the short version.

I think detachment just happens. If we force it, it is something else–I’m not sure what to call it, but it is not true detachment.

Detachment means you are no longer emotionally involved in their decisions. You are not hurt by what they do, you have lost that bond and, in essence, no longer love them.

There is no way that you can force this to happen before you are ready. And, when you are ready, it will just simply ‘happen’.

For some women it happens right away. They discover and they are done. Yes, there is still a lot of hurt and trauma to work through, but you are ‘over’ him. Nagging doubts, fears about the future, the children, leftover PTSD–these are still there, but your emotional ties to him are severed.

You can still care about what happens to him, you can still deal with him on various issues, and you can still be civil, but you are ‘detached’ from the relationship.

If they choose to act out, then you have no connection to that any more.

Now, boundaries are something different. Boundaries are what you will or will not allow in your life. Boundaries are how we expect people to treat us.

There cannot be boundaries without consequences. Without consequences you have no way to enforce YOUR boundaries.

So, from what you wrote, I see your quandary. You are still emotionally attached to his acting out and you want him to stop, but you are not ready to enforce any consequences.

That leaves you in an unbearable situation. Your boundaries are being violated and you cannot do anything about it. This will kill you emotionally, if not physically.

All I can suggest is some serious counseling for you to determine exactly where you are with your feelings toward your husband. If you are not able to emotionally detach from him, to completely let go of whatever he does, or enforce escalating consequences when he violates and abuses your personal boundaries, then staying with him will be a living hell.

Thanks NAP, I count on you to keep my on my toes (and hold my feet to the fire when necessary). 😉

Got it. Thanks for helping us to know how it is for you, Lynn.

I really appreciated JoAnn’s additional comments, as well. Did that help to unscramble some of the frustration?

Dear Lynn & Sisters,
My 2 cents might barely be worth the 2 cents, but for me detachment doesnt have to mean any of the things outlined, it only means ONE thing–not sticking to something outside of ourselves (attaching) and letting it take over US. So really it means disconnecting from the things that either harm us or that we simply cannot healthily deal with in a given moment. That can look very different for each of us, and even for any one of us over time. It means making your needs a priority. Even if we did want to fish our SAs out of hell, we wouldnt have the strength to do it if we dont take care of ourselves. For me detachment means maintaining myself as an individual and not getting lost or caught up in something that isnt me.

I did not suggest you not address your h at all. I address my h all the time. I go to dinner with him, we buy groceries together, we watch TV, we even sleep in the same bed. BUT I try not to engage in any of the interactions that lead to what Karen referred to as the “he said/she said” comments on here, which are always variations of one of us reporting what our h said or did, what we said/did in response, etc. etc., and is always the same ridiculous argument or scenario, wherein we are surprised-to-shocked that he could be that dense/stupid/heartless/dishonest…THAT is the real and fatal circle we keep spinning on. It doesn’t change, because no matter what approach we take, how we put it, how many times we explain, they DON’T get it. It has taken ME 3 years on the hamster wheel to understand this.