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OK – after being hit by the tsunamis last year (6+ discoveries and disclosures), I’m now standing on higher ground, working on myself and trying to figure out what might be coming next.
Hubby claims that he is in therapy (with a trauma therapist) and he has determined that he can’t say “no” to weak women who need his help (related to his “mom” issues), and then it leads to sex (although sex isn’t the primary motivator). I asked him how prostitutes and answering CL sex ads fits into that model and he said he’s still working on that. He also claims that several people including two CSATs and his SA sponsor all told him that he isn’t a sex addict. (I know that the two CSATs didn’t say that so it’s his “interpretation”). He won’t let me or Dr. Minwalla talk to the CSATs (he refuses to sign a release) since he says that I’m obsessed and that I’m on a “witchhunt”. So – last week I wrote my boundaries presented them in marriage therapy and will enforce them tomorrow.
So – what can I expect next? Can SA’s that are white knuckling it and in denial, do it forever? He isn’t into porn that I know of (he likes the “live” variety – pros, CL rendevous and affairs)
I know that everyone’s story is different but just wanted to prepare myself for what might come next.
Deb
Since you’re on a “witchhunt” and obviously the crazy one in the couple, I’d expect him to keep blaming and gaslighting and probably acting out. Until he offers COMPLETE transparency and stops accusing you, he hasn’t even stepped into the shallow end of recovery.
Thanks March – you are a straight shooter and I really appreciate that.
So – I ask myself – why the heck be with someone while they “think about their recovery”? It’s like hitting your head against the wall, time and time again. My first therapist said that I should divorce him. If he gets into serious recovery – I can always re-marry him. (although by then I will have probably moved on).
So – your resolute has given me the strength to do what I need to do tomorrow (even if he has a brain lesion that is inflammed – heck, my heart is inflammed).
And I realize as you pointed out in an earlier post that my boundaries aren’t worth a hill of beans if he isn’t serious about his own recovery. Many women feel that they know if their husband’s are faking their recovery or not. What’s your take on that? Is it obvious? How often do you require polys for your hubby and are they done at a CSAT’s office? Polys seem like the only real test for compulsive liars.
Dear Deb,
I sincerely loathe your SAH. I just needed to get that off my chest. I feel MUCH better now!Love, your sister,
SL
My divorce was final January 20, but I continue to live with my SA and keep that fact a secret from our child. I filed for divorce after he failed a polygraph a little over two years in (He took one around the first anniversary of his sobriety and passed with no problem), so he re-took and it was inconclusive. After that, I told him I couldn’t be married to a “recovering” SA who wasn’t attending meetings, was no longer seeing a therapist, and had failed a poly–that I had ABSOLUTELY nothing to hang my hat on. So I filed for divorce and up until the morning I left for court, he did not believe I’d go through with it. BUT, in the meantime, he started going back to meetings, seeing a new therapist, and showing signs of real recovery, not just sobriety. I still need the polygraph, though, because I DON’T trust myself. I want to believe him when he says the test was bogus–that he hasn’t acted out in three years. Alas, he is waaaaaaay too good a liar. If he passes this test, it could mean those tests ARE bogus, or that the one was a fluke. If he fails it, though, which would mean 3 polys and not one passing?! I mean, sheer luck would give him better odds than that. If he fails this one, he’s out. And if he’s been lying all this time that he was supposedly sober, then he is one sick monster, incapable of putting anything before his dick.
Oh, I should tell y’all, too, that while he’s in the house, the bills etc. are being paid the way they always were, which means I can squirrel money away as long as he’s here. Oddly, it makes me feel better that the divorce is done. I felt a lot of grief for a couple of weeks (BUT WHY? It was never a marriage!), but I’m over that.
March – What you are describing is exactly what my h has pulled for 3 yrs. – Always, when we are in a crisis, shows a positive attitude towards recovery by being consistent in doing RN lessons, going to therapy, and journaling on a regular basis. But, he always becomes complacent and quits doing it. My therapist told me Steve does this to appease me and keep the marriage going, and he added that a part of him is really holding onto the addiction where he feels most comfortable. I would guess that is true with a lot of SA’s, including your husband.
You are right – They are W-a-a-a-a-a-y too good of liers. They will say whatever needs to be said to get what they want. I agree that most of them are unable to put anything before their dick.
My SA’s problem is currently the BPD. Lies, manipulates, and has bouts of anger as I have described.
I hope another polygraph will give you an answer you need and your husband is being honest with you. The problem with polygraphs, as you probably know, are too many variables to get them around them, and questions have to be very specific. The most important are the baseline questions because they set the stage for the lieing or truthfulness. My love and prayers are with you.Deb – I totally agree with March. My husband has never offered complete transparency or stopped the blaming game. As long as they lie and deceive, do not disclose, and project everything onto you – they are NOT in recovery.
Mine obviously isn’t.Dear Deb,
I agree completely with March on this. The sooner you assume a “take no prisoners stance” the sooner your H will show you whether he is going to play ball or waste your time. The quickest way to get these guys to at least attempt recovery is a packed suitcase or a lawyer IMHO.
Thanks all. I really appreciate it. My brother is an addict (alcohol and drugs), so I know all the games. My hubby has convinced me that his SA “sponsor” has told him that he isn’t a sex addict last month – and he’s hanging his hat on that and he would be “disingenuous” to continue going to the meetings. (oh my!) I can’t even imagine that someone told him that given his “choke a horse” behavior – except someone who was ill informed, or a real idiot. But I know for a FACT that the two CSAT’s that he saw did NOT tell him that he isn’t a sex addict – he made that up, so likely he made up what his sponsor said. What I can’t figure out (like we can ever figure them out…) is why is he lying? Does he want to protect his addiction, or is it about shame? I suspect it’s more about the shame of the label and he thinks he can control his compulsion. That’s what my gut tells me anyway.
What I do know, without a doubt, are the following facts:
1) At the tail end of his last acting out binge that I know about (last April), he showed physical signs of withdrawl – his pupils were dilated, he was agitated, raging – like a caged animal. The classic withdrawl signs that you hear/read about. It was freaky.
2) I also know that many covert incest survivors (which he is) become sex addicts.
3) I know that his sister felt that her sexual boundaries were stepped on by him on growing up.
4) He has told me that he felt like he was “in a trance” and couldn’t stop himself during his last two affairs last year (although he said that he had no problems stopping seeing prostitutes and CL ads).
5) I know that he tried to delete one of his Craigslist ad that I found so that I wouldn’t “obsess”. (yeah, right).
6) I know that he told me last week that he likes to “spin” information so that he looks better.
7) I know that he escalated over the past 5 years from pros to CL ads to “slash and burn” affairs, and at one time last year he was sexting one partner, having sex with another one and having sex with me, too (yuck). He told me after one of his first SA meetings that he felt very lucky that he never got arrested.
8) I know that he tells half truths when caught.
9) I know that I don’t trust the guy as far as I can throw him.
Sorry – just had to put it in black and white for myself in preparation for our marriage session/safety list tomorrow. I’m so over it. If he isn’t prepared to put his toe into the recovery pond (vs. sobriety – thanks March for that distinction) – then he can live elsewhere while I find a good divorce attorney.
March – I really hope that your next polygraph gives you some closure. If they would just get it through their thick noggins that the lies just make what they do/did all the more worse.
Deb
P.S. I feel a little bad since if he choose to ignore my “safety list” tomorrow he’ll be living alone with a potential brain lesion inflammation – but then again, all I have to think about is him talking on the phone in the hallway during my breast cancer MRI, and being with the other woman a day before my surgery. Yuck.
Deb, promise me you WILL NOT FEEL BAD about his ‘potential’ brain lesion inflammation. We all have our crosses to bear and that’s his. And truly, was he thinking about YOUR health, physical or emotional, when he was out fucking other women (calling a spade a spade)? He literally played Russian Roulette with your LIFE (AIDS = death). Said with Love, Liza
I’m just curious, what test do they do to see one has an inflamed brain lesion? I know a family member with epilepsy and an MRI of the brain was done to find the lesion. If the lesion is inflamed wouldnt that be quite serious, sort of like meningitis?
I’m just curious, what test do they do to see one has an inflamed brain lesion? I know a family member with epilepsy and an MRI of the brain was done to find the lesion. If the lesion is inflamed wouldnt that be quite serious, sort of like meningitis?
NAP – I’m not sure – he had Gamma knife surgery about 5 years ago so it could be the result of that. Not sure how serious it is – but his doc didn’t ask him to come into the hospital – he’s searching for previous MRI’s to compare it to. I think that lesions can get inflammed – just like any wound on the outside of our body. I will certainly be there for him if he has a physical problem – but not as a wife, but as a co-parent, if he doesn’t adhere to my safety list today. Our marriage therapist said after last week’s session that we are “planets apart” on our recovery. Today I am standing firm with the list I shared last week. He said this weekend not to push it – he will get there, but heck, I’m not waiting a lifetime or putting myself in harms way yet again. The list doesn’t even assure that our family is safe – but it’s a start and is the bare minimum. What I didn’t put on there in writing was the poly – I went back and forth on whether or not to put it on there in black and white – probably best left for if and when he works on his disclosure.
I’ll let you all know what happens today.
BTW – I’m going to start out the session with an ammends – that I realize that in my co-dependency (fear of being alone) and trauma that I didn’t feel the pain from the disclosures or protect myself – and in order to feel safe going forward (and not get overwhelmed and numb out) I need these. Best to take responsibility for my own “stuff” and come from a position of strength and humility.
Deb
Yeah – maybe that will be his next excuse – the lesion made me do it all!! And now that it’s inflammed – I have to go back to anonymous sex – lots of it!
Dear Deb,
I just wanted to reply to your original post. getting here a bit late. when you said
“So – what can I expect next? Can SA’s that are white knuckling it and in denial, do it forever? He isn’t into porn that I know of (he likes the “live” variety – pros, CL rendevous and affairs)”While I guess some credit can be given that he sees a CSAT at all, however I would agree that he’s not even in the shallow end. I mean they just need to be willing to do WHATEVER it takes to save the marriage. Whatever it takes —to repair damage and admit to their behavior.
Until then many of these guys play games. He’s playing Deb. Sorry. He kinda wants to get well, to keep you. And then, he doesn’t want to do the real hard work that it will REALLY take to get there. I don’t know what spawns the change for them to get serious about it, or if they ever do. But until a light switch goes on for him, he will dance around it, play 50/50–gaslight, blame, not take accountability, then sort of admit half truths, profess to be getting better, but you don’t see real change of attitude. And it leaves you stuck in mire with his shit. because he won’t put the damn recovery train in Drive. It idles… looks like it will go, then wait. then wait some more. And in time only you can decide if real progress is being made, enough for you to remain married or not. It’s up to you. It’s up to all of us.
p.s. I am really really really starting to hate CSAT’s.
Deb
First, I am sorry that you are dealing with this. I don’t post very often but I have learned so much from the wise and brave women on this site.
Second, in your post you said that he said “not to push it.” He is right. His behavior is totally out of your hands. It took me a long time to accept this and to come to the realization that I needed to do what was right for me. As you said so well “to take responsibility for my own “stuff” and come from a position of strength and humility.” I like that very much.
A new mantra for my list.
Thanks and wish you well through all of this,
Ellenpam this is it but the fucking train is running out of gas……..maybe should call a cab
when you wrote Until then many of these guys play games. He’s playing Deb. Sorry. He kinda wants to get well, to keep you. And then, he doesn’t want to do the real hard work that it will REALLY take to get there. I don’t know what spawns the change for them to get serious about it, or if they ever do. But until a light switch goes on for him, he will dance around it, play 50/50–gaslight, blame, not take accountability, then sort of admit half truths, profess to be getting better, but you don’t see real change of attitude. And it leaves you stuck in mire with his shit. because he won’t put the damn recovery train in Drive. It idles… looks like it will go, then wait. then wait some more. And in time only you can decide if real progress is being made, enough for you to remain married or not. It’s up to you. It’s up to all of us
much love katt
ps i really enjoyed talking the other day hope all is well
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