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Hi ladies
Have missed you ladies. Been so busy with life. Finally getting outside of myself, outside of my fog.My h found a job, praise God. We know how fortunate we are as so many others are struggling now.
He starts on the 19th. The job is local, same salary and less travel than prior job which is good bc this is a hot button for me. And the time he tended to act out the most
He’s handled the job loss, and recovery extremely well (as far as I know, not obsessively checking on him now). Trying to trust his actions and not words
He goes to daily mass, men’s group therapy once per week and a sa meeting once per week
He set up couples therapy for us, had out first session last week. It was a good session, we clearly have much work to do
Continue to take it one day at a timeSo to my question…..making good progress. More openly and honestly communicating…..disclosure, reopening the sounds
As many of you know, we were set to do it in January and then the job loss. He is ok with doing it, said its probably much less than what I am imagining. Can we say minimizing. I find it funny that he somehow thinks visiting any number of prostitutes is not that bad. Anyway. My point being you can’t unlearn it, and I don’t want to be retraumatized.
Thoughts ladies, what would you do? What did you do?Thanks
I would not do it; hes working hard and youre working hard. I personally think they are more harmful than good. This is my personal opinion and everyone is different regarding what they need.
Anna – I’m new here – so I look forward to getting to know you. Regarding disclosures, I want a full, formal disclosure (with a poly) because I have been traumatized by the staggered disclosures and discoveries over the past year (there have been around 7 – I lost count). I realize (and I’ve read) that it’s MUCH better to get the info. in one fell swoop and in a safe and controlled manner with a therapist. I know that if I don’t – and if I stay in the marriage, then there is a high risk that there will be more discoveries and disclosures dribbled over the years. I’d rather know the “stuff” than be hit with it when I least expect it. I don’t want gory details – but I also want a “narrative” – his understanding of why he did them. That will also tell me how much he takes responsibility and whether or not he appears to be committed to his recovery or not.
Right now my SAH thinks he can control his behavior going forward – and I plan to use the disclosure as a way of showing that the magnitude of his behavior (in black and white, with a therapist backing me up) warrants more safety measures than “sheer will power” and an hour of therapy a week.
Anna,
My “disclosure rules” were as follows:
1. I don’t want to know what you did before we met.
2. I want to know what you did. I’ll then ask questions like how many times, for how long, how frequently, etc.
3. I did not want details unless I specifically asked. (the fact that he may love redheads over blondes is something I prefer not to know.
4. I wanted to know actions. Not thoughts. As an example, “I thought about hiring a prostitute.” I don’t want to hear that. It’s just a thought. “I looked up escorts online although I never hired one.” THAT is an action, not a thought. So I wanted to know that.
5. I specifically asked if he had sought out anything underage, violent, or gay.I’m not a “details” need to know everything type. I have too good of an imagination and I truly believe it would increase the psychological damage.
I don’t have a clue as to how “trust” will fit into our future but I knew there was no place for it without forgiveness first. I had to know WHAT I was forgiving before I could forgive him.
For some people…. Letting bygones be bygones and simply starting over with a blank slate is enough. Only YOU know YOU.
Hi Anna,
I am really glad to hear that your H is progressing and taking recovery seriously — or seems to be. You sound like you are in a better place also. 🙂 It makes me happy to hear a positive report, that somebody somewhere is doing the work!
on disclosure, well, I am of the saime mind as NAP. it will re traumatize and open old wounds. I mean some wives feel they really need to know all. I feel I needed to know enough, to understand how bad it was/is. not every instance, every lie. just the basics. and in my case, it was more than enough.
it sounds like you are both working hard. I say don’t interrupt the progress with disclosure of the past. you have already moved “past” it, to a fair degree. why reopen?
I did not want the full disclosure. What I already knew had torn my life apart and pained me in ways I had never felt before. Why would I want to feel that again. What he did is horrible, anything else associated with that kind of behavior would be just as horrible, so what difference does it make to know each and every horrible thing he did. I know what I know and I don’t need to know no more!
We are both on the path of healing and he is learning to live without acting out. That’s all I can ask for right now.
To re-open old wounds would be a step back and I don’t want to go there.
Much love, Claire
I would want to know all at your age. Why? Because I would want to know EXACTLY what I was signing on for. When we don’t want to know it is because on some level we know the truth is painful and disturbing. Also….I want to KNOW my husband…as much as possible. I don’t really think any kind of intimacy is possible… without really knowing each other. Yes details are traumatic, BUT if he suggests that hookers are not that bad you have to imagine what he does consider “bad”? If it is true that these guys are addicts…then the possibility of relapse is always present and I would want to know what relapse really means in his case. If you were older and staying for $$ reasons(among others) I might say- better u stay in the dark …but as a younger woman looking for an intimate partner…that isn’t possible with secrets and being kept half informed. In the end..it is your call. With that in mind…it is true that there is no unknowing once u know.Life is full of issues we would sooner avoid but being ignorant does not necessarily protect us. These relationships are full of lies and deceit. Burying our head is probably not the best approach with a liar and manipulator to begin with. At some point…truth has to be a priority for a real marraige?
Karen xxAmen, Karen!!! So GLAD you’re back!!
Personally, I don’t really believe in disclosures or polys. Polys don’t seem to be all that reliable as one of the partners find fault in the system if it doesn’t go their way and confusion sets in and nothing gets accomplished except more trauma/drama. IMHO, disclosures are a joke because since when are they suddenly into telling the WHOLE truth?? I mean, seriously? Let’s be real. How many times have we pointed out that we rarely, if ever, get a crumb more than what they know we have already discovered??
That being said, I need to point out that I have NO experience with an SA who (whether caught or not), was willing to accept responsibility and seek recovery. But to back up, before I KNEW about SA and thought my husband was “just” a cheater, He agreed to marital counseling where we proceeded to waste ALOT of time and money as he continued to lie his ass off to me AND the therapist and went about his life for years continuing to do the same things. After D day and realizing the full scope of double life (January, 2011), I was DONE. So no help, therapy, polys, disclosures, boundaries, etc. took place. I hired a kick ass attorney and packed my bags (after I got off the patio, of course).
So, my opinions are only based on practicality, common sense, and years of betrayals, lies, and deceit – all of which I don’t intend to everrrr allow in my life again. The end.
I am the type of person that needs to know it all, but I have to say it has been a waste of time to expect total disclosure because the SA will not and is not capable of doing it. I think when we pick up on a lie, partial truth or omission, our mind runs away with what the truth is anyway. It doesn’t do any good, because we will NEVER know everything and we can drive ourselves crazy always wondering.
I think we need to take what we know and make a decision based on those facts/details and the motivation and williness of the SA to do the hard work to learn and control his addiction. But, in doing so be fully prepared for slips and relapses. If we can handle those, so be it for the woman who can-I can’t.Anna
Here is my two cents. If my h had come to me (without my having to ask or just having to ask one time) and said that he would provide me with a complete disclosure that would meet whatever level of detail I was comfortable with it would of made such a difference in the direction we took. What I needed from him wasn’t a list of who, what, where but I absolutely needed a willingness from him to be open and a willingness to answer questions. He couldn’t or wasn’t able to get to that point. That was what wouldn’t work for me.
Sounds like you are both working hard. Sending good thoughts your way.
Ellenkim i love this-
I don’t have a clue as to how “trust” will fit into our future but I knew there was no place for it without forgiveness first. I had to know WHAT I was forgiving before I could forgive him.
this is something that just goes around and around in my head.
i have told him in the past if i go out and do what ever could you just forgive me with out knowing what i did- his answer is no why would i do that.Dear Anna,
So glad your guy got a job! That’s one stress point eliminated for both of you. Congratulations for making it through that hard time! Maybe you might want a little celebration to mark that. I mean if you trying to stay together, you should celebrate the good moments, don’t you think?
re: disclosure
I guess you’ve noticed we have diverse opinions on this one. I think it has a lot to do with how we are wired, first. But I do think there is a sober second thought process that the sisters have mentioned. While I don’t want any more awful images in my head, the prospect of information dribbling out, or being shared in order to hurt me, is also terrifying. I experienced an unexpected prolonged disclosure from my SA with my sons, and it took a lot of work to get over it. After that, I never had us all together in the room again.
However, I also am of the mind that until some women really know what their SA’s are capable of doing, they don’t know whether to stay or go. I knew I was going without a complete disclosure. But some women would never stay if they knew what they might have to face with this guy. That’s why the treatment programs try and delay this truth-telling. Because sane un-brain-washed women would never put up with it.
So it’s a really complicated question.
You have to look in yourself, and value yourself enough to answer the question out of who you are and what you need most. We’ll be there, no matter what.
hugs,
D.
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