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I agree Katt
Here’s a thought, as society, have these men been groomed to be helpless pathetic losers, or is it so engrained in them/us that the behaviour is almost expected?
I know my Grandmother would have said similar to your aunt, how long have these attitudes been handed down?
Hi Cindy1111,
I agree with everyone. I think you have your head on straight. I think your thinking is really, really good right now. Its healthy. Please dont think anything is wrong with you. It may feel a bit awkward at first when we take care of ourselves and our feelings, however, it is not wrong. We just havent done it in a while. Your friend, NAP
maybe its in their chromosomes DNA i just don’t know but there is definitely something different between them and us i have seen a differce in my boys and girls or maybe its me
Dear Cindy
Thanks for response on the “fog” – makes alot of sense. I think NAP hit it on the head- it does feel awkward when we start getting our needs met, mine have been soooo neglected. But I am getting better at it. I think a long as we can get our needs met in a healthy way, there is hope. Perhaps its all one giant compromise, we take on motherly roles, due to their weaknesses and immaturity, and hopefully we get something back from them/the relationship that makes us feel good. If we have to be “mom’s” but there’s no positive payback, what’s the point? Something needs to be in it for us, some positive reward or reinforcement.
hurtheart,
and sisters, it was so great to read your messages hear. I lol and it was the best therapy. I have cried too often, and I really turn to all of you just like to my counselor. It is so difficult with this isolating topic. I feel so grateful for this place and my counselor. You affirmed here the experiences and world in I now inhabit too, without being prepared, without wanting or seeking it, and still wishing he had a soul.whoops! next time I will edit what I write so that it is coherent; though it could be that third glass of wine. thanks ladies for the company!
YESSSS.Mine says the exact same thins in the same voice which you describe.Its so fucking fake-but I look crazy if I say that-then he gets the I cant say anything right.God help me.
I am thankful to helen for finding this old thread and posting here so that it was on top today for me to read. All of these posts from a couple years ago hit really close to home for me!
Mine said the same thing that some of yours said, over and over — “I’m sorry you feel that way,” “I’m sorry you can’t move past this,” and, my personal favorite, “I really hope that you can get yourself the help you need to deal with your issues, move forward and stop living in the past. That was then; now is now.” These are the responses I’d get if I ever brought ANYTHING up about his betrayals. He would also get furious at me if I asked him any questions about his activities — he acted like I was destroying our relationship by my inability to get over the past, and he attributed that to my own psychological issues.
I have no idea what all of his activities were, because I never had the opportunity for “full disclosure” — or any disclosure I didn’t dig up myself — but I am quite sure that he never, ever went to an SA meeting, so he didn’t get the canned responses from that.
A note to Starry, if you’re still active on this site: mine sometimes said similar things to you, about how he was honored that I still cared for him and was willing to be around him at all, after what I found out, and that he was humbled by his experiences, etc. You asked if your husband could be faking it for 8 months. No question he could. He likely did for years before you found out, right? And mine said those kinds of nice things (along with the “apologies”) for a year before I caught him still lying and cheating. Turns out I was right to be suspicious after all. I know that will come as a shock to all of you!
JoAnn posted an example of what a real apology would sound like. It nearly brought me to tears. Those words are exactly what I have needed to hear from him, for so long, and he never offered them. Here’s what she suggested our SA partner could say, instead of apologizing for OUR feelings:
“I’m sorry for what I did. It was wrong. It was unacceptable. I accept full liability for any consequences. I will endeavor to make sure that it doesn’t happen again, because such actions are simply morally unjustifiable. What do you want me to do to make things better?”A statement like that from the betrayers would go so far to mend and heal us, but I suppose it will never ever happen, will it? (Unless they were to find this website, and then use this latest canned “apology” without meaning it…)
What a mess.
It’s the lies and denials that make me feel crazy, and I totally understand the “fog” that you all described. It’s where I’ve lived since I first found out. Hopefully, the fog will lift a bit now that I found this website and finally have an explanation for what is going on in my life!
These older posts just show how SA’s all use the same playbook. Over and over again, women show up with the same stories.
My personal favorite “I’m sorry you have to feel that way.” I wouldn’t HAVE to feel that way if you didn’t screw other people, dumb ass!
And I got accused of never being able to move past it…while he was still doing it! The only apology I got was at the MC’s office- and it was supposed to shut me up so I’d “get over” it. Again, it was while he was still going to orgies and prostitutes.
No wonder I felt so damn crazy. Honestly, you read this stuff and you want to tell every new sister that shows up- leave him. Stop what you are doing- stop wondering why he is the way he is, stop wondering if you should support him while he tried to recover, stop stop stop. Do not waste one more minute of your life on this crap. Go to the nearest exit and reclaim yourself and your life and find a decent man who will treat you like you deserve to be treated.
Anony, just so you know. Mine has apologized profusely. he has done the apology just like you stated.Before he went to Minwalla’s intensive I got all the canned responses. I actually threw him out of the house because of those idiot, non emotional responses. Later, when he truly began working on himself, he did not blame anyone but himself. He said it all exactly right. I am here to tell you that it still hurts and the only thing it does is diffuse your anger somewhat. Maybe that is good and maybe it’s not. It does not lessen the hurt and betrayal. It shows that MAYBE he gets it. Maybe he is sorry. Maybe he is going to change. It does not in any way make up for what he did.
Stacy ( annabegins) doesn’t post very often because her H is doing really well in recovery ( over a year) and he is being really great. She does not want to take out the anger she feels towards all the SA’s on him and she doesn’t think what he is doing is going to be good enough to make her want to build a marriage with him. She has 2 kids and they are a consideration and she has finances to think about. The point is that no apology is good enough. It’s hard no matter what.
Bev,
Thanks for the reply and the info. That helps. I have been so bitter at not getting a real apology, and feeling so crazy because he blames me (and I am sure that, in his head, it is my fault). It really helps to come on this site and get some validation.
For what it’s worth, I turned it around on him today. He got totally pissed off at me for defending myself when he made an allusion to the past (all I did was say that I am not crazy and never was, and he got really mad). I was thinking of this posting thread when I was trying to navigate his way over the top response. So I told him I’m sorry he feels that way, and that I hope some day he’s able to put the past behind him and move forward with his life. I tried really hard not to smile or smirk when I said it, but it felt fucking great! Maybe we should all give them just a little dose of their own BS every once in a while, just for our own sanity….
Bumpity bump. Quite a few girls have SA’s headed off to the therapy mines, no telling what shit they’ll dig up and come home flinging around.
I think i need to be on vacation when he returns, far far away…….seriously that is what i had been thinking today before i read this thread. I dont want him to touch me anymore I don’t think i have any love left for him. I think he is only asking how i feel to day to plug it into his narc brain to figure out how i am going to affect his world. scared it is a waste of money and what the hell difference does it make anyway? I will never have a loving marriage with this zombie man, so what if he gets better and learns how to love me, if it is even possible it will take years i will be 80 years old by the time he develops any empathy, compassion or real soul…………………so many options for me though, still navigating……….
This is the very reason SAH and I were separated for so long. He gave me plenty of robotic apologies. He never apologized in a way that my heart knew he meant it. He was aware of what he had to do in order for our relationship to move forward. He was either not capable of doing it and/or didn’t do it because other woman was in the wings.
Thanks Liza…. You are dependable 🙂
It is all the same but the more I’ve thought about it the more LisaK’s post kept nagging at me. It’s not just the canned responses or the apologies ( heartfelt or not). It’s the eerie, creepy feeling that it’s not even really them talking at all.
It may not make any sense but I’m trying to say something. I just can’t quite put a name to it or articulate it very well. I know what it is but I can’t really grasp it.
It’s circling around somewhere in whatever I have left for a brain 🙂
Maybe it’s just the fact that you are living with someone and asking ” Who the fuck are you??”….
Like they have not internalized a truth that has become a part of what they are in their core character values? It is intellectual assent, not coming from foundational truth out of the heart that governs attitudes and behavior?
Pretenders……….I don’t think it’s so much taught at their meetings, more so that they are repeating what they hear the other men telling the group what they picked up from a therapist in mc because that’s def mc lingo.
lisalife,
THAT is one excellent evaluation. Precisely worded. Exact. It is an unfortunate situation that makes a woman have to dig so deep and articulate so carefully what is happening in her life. You are sharp and wise and you will come out of this, whole, after a time. Thanks for your definition, Debora
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