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I have been doing alot of cleaning and still soooo much more to do. The house is stuffed to the gills with excess furniture and just stuff.
I was moving furniture around yesterday. Which invloved finding all of the books on sex addiction, co-dependenct, any copied stuff i had liked, any notes i made, any thoughts i had and written down. And for a moment i reflected about the past 2 years (just shy by one month, i cannot believe it has been that long now). And i looked at all of the stuff i had accumulated, how much i read, how much i poored my heart out on paper, how much i tried to make sense of it all….how much and how hard i tried.
I really did try so hard. And despite all of my hard work and effort, nothing changed.
My thoughts are, i could have done none of that, and the outcome would have been the same for him. The outcome is the same for him.
I guess the point of my story is that it does not matter how hard we try. How much we hope that they will change or how much we demand therapy and meetings. It has to come within them.
However i do not regret all of this time spent, because it has helped me immensly to see how i need to change how i see the world and the trauma of my life up to this point. It has made me see things and re-evaluate my life.
As far as our h’s it does not matter how much we try. If my h would have put a fraction of the time and effort into this i did, we would not be getting divorced. But there in lies his personality and his objectives.
I used to say pay attention to their actions and not their words. And put no more effort into their recovery than they do. At that point you can clearly see where the relationship stands and where he is.
Love,
FloraI totally get this, Flora.
I worked really really hard educating myself, trying out different things to frame a possible future with my SA, I listened and was encouraging and forgiving, I had my own therapist to do the work that was mine to do in myself, i shared my journey with my SA and told him what I needed and what I could not bear, etc. And then, after he continued to ignore me in the relationship, did things that were cruel and then told me that this is just how it was and that he felt fine about himself and everything he had done, I realized there was only him in the relationship. Well there was me as long as I was useful as a dumping ground, a cover, or whatever. In recovery (and I believe him that he was sober at this time) he revealed who he really was and that he wasn’t going to change that for me or anyone. Sticking around after that revelation just isn’t possible.Live your life.
D.xoHi Flora
I love the fact you don’t regret the time you have put in, it’s wonderful to hear. Although I have only just started on this life journey I do not have any bitterness or anger that I am here as I already have learnt so much about myself. There is plenty to make better, and it does overwhelm me at times, ok a lot of the time, but I am grateful for you sharing this today, I needed to hear it.
Your last point is very interesting, actions speak louder than words! He is doing a few things right now I have asked him to as they make me feel safe, plenty of defensiveness in the tone of his voice. Like a child that doesn’t want to tidy their room. If I wanted children I would have had them.
Some times I just want to tell him to grow the fuck up! But I have always wanted to say that to any man I have ever gone out with in my life! I guess knowing what I now know all my emotions or reactions really are amplified.
Just writing this down I feel better. I already have a smirk on my face; some times I find the entire situation comical, well the SA’s excuses mostly, I mean REALLY?!
Feefee xofor me i think i need to understand how could someone anyone be so evil. these sas have no connection to life. they are incapable to care, respect, value anything. part of my learning does have to do with him but a better part is that people like this are in this world. if i could find something that helped me understand this. this evil has changed me i no longer feel that people are good until i know differently, i was never a person to judge a book by its cover. i always believe everything happens for a reason. i saw the good in everything. no more, so a lot of my digging has to do with me and my need to know. i some way i want no need to know i have not spent my life wrong, what a sick sick world it is.
much love kattKatt, the world itself is beautiful: http://thestonescolossaldream.blogspot.com/search?q=maypops
Hi Katt,
Unf. i think the fact that we do not really think there is evil out there, that no one would lie, that evel really is lurking in our homes, towns and the world; makes it so we are suseptible to these kind of things happening in our lives.I always assumed evel/bad was in jail, looked like a criminal, would be mean, or i would gather as such…somehow. The child therapist said that victims of abuse are kind and compassionate, because they are abused. That the guy who was molested as a child, will be kind and sweet, and will still molest your child. They are a victim themselves, however will go onto to create more victims and abuse kids. They will not look like a child molester. And i would imagine that that is the case of many other types of abusers and abuse.
So i was wrong. There is bad out there. And bad that will smile and say he loves he, while he lies to you.
I guess the hardest thing to learn is that this exists. That every one is not good until proven bad, that everyone deserves a chance. When we do this, we take on anyone who appears nice to us. We give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that everyone in the world does not mean to hurt anyone nor would they lie. We cannot comprehend that this is out there.
And so be the reason why sometimes we might get trapped. Beyond our better judgement, we may have given our h’s the benefit of the doubt a time or too…based on the notion that…no one would lie like that, why would he lie to me, he loves me, and why would anyone do that/this?
I jumped through hoops for my h, by rationalizing some of his behaviors in the past. I did the circling and thinking and he stayed in one place. He never changed, however i cirlced around and changed for him.
Its easier to change ourselves than to expect others to change. Because others will not change. And in effort to get what we want, we often have to move on. Because what we expect from someone, they may not be capable of. And even though we married/or partnered with them, our expectation was one thing, however they had an entirely different thing going on behind closed doors.
It took me along time to get this realization. That not only was he not who i thought he was, he was not what i wanted in my life, and he was not willing to change or become someone that was. And further more i should not expect this of him. I know that they are sick with their addiction, however we deserve a life too. We deserve to have the freedom to live. We have the freedeom to be alive. We cannot save everyone and not everyone even wants to be saved or change. Some of them are quite happy where they are. Just because we don;t approve of it does not make it wrong, however it makes it not right for us.
We are all different people.
Love,
Floraits like ive been sleeping with the enemy for the last 7 years. flora your words seem to describe me well.
‘ The child therapist said that victims of abuse are kind and compassionate, because they are abused. That the guy who was molested as a child, will be kind and sweet, and will still molest your child”Careful about generalizing. I was molested as a child and would not dream of hurting a child that way.
march she said the guy- i to was sexually abused. it would be interresting though to see how many woman who were and how they live. how many men were and how they live.
i know my partner was abused and i know how he lives.
i once told him that the biggest difference between us is i love the way i always WANTED to be loved and he loves the way he WAS loved …………Hi Flora,
I love your self reflective forums. They are so helpful and wise. Your knowledge and understanding are evident and I appreciate your sharing of your thoughts. Very much so.I agree, how hard we try. We can’t change other people. We can encourage or be supportive however we can’t do a thing about their desire or lack of desire for sobriety and recovery. It has to come from them. If it doesn’t, it ain’t going to happen.
Also, their behavior is their truth. Words are a dime a dozen. We have to read their actions. What do they say? My therapist said to me one time, gee nap, not only does your h not love you, he doesn’t even like you, look at the way he treats you. So true.
My therapist told me a ways back if I took 1/10th the energy I put into him into myself, I’d have a great life. She was right. I do put all that energy into myself and I do have a great life. I try to celebrate it everyday . It feels good!
Thanks Flora, love, Nap
Hi March,
Yes its just a generalization. It does not mean that because you or anyone was molested as a child that they will molest someone elses child. It just means that sometimes those who were hurt, maybe will hurt others, as she was talking about my h.She went onto say that we will repeat our history/and unresolved issues until it is dealt with. And just because we ourselves may not create it, we may foster environments where it could happen.
For instance my h was molested by a childhood babysitter who i am guessing was a younger teenage girl. He did not discuss that he was molseted, made it sounds like childhood sex play. He has not dealt with it in therapy, nor has he completed the 12 steps. Because he still has this unresloved issue he may do something himself or he may unknowingly create the same environment for it to happen to her.
I know that i did not want to create th life i have created for me here. I wanted to have a strong loving marriage that lasted forever, unlike my parents and childhood. So here i am tow marriages later, broken families. So i did create the same disaster. And yes i do have unresloved issues. I am hoping soon to somehow find what i need to do to stop it from happening and getting hung up again in a bad relationship.
Love,
FloraSo again, no i was not saying that just because you were molseted you would do it.
I wonder if their are any stats on that. You do not hear of many women child molesters, mostly just men.
But i also find that men tend to be more twisted in their views. For instance my mom was fliiping through all of our stations, there are about a thousand of them, flipping through all the titles. And i swear to god one of them said tween sex. Disgusting. How is that even legal to list on TV. I am sure they have “18” year olds they have dressed up to look very young. But its disgusting. I know my h had videos which portrayed very young like high school girls, called barely legal. We all know they were probably not even legal. But its dugusting. Their are people who make money off this stuff.As partners of SA, some of us have abuse in our childhood. Either mental, physical, sexual, neglect ect or a combination there of. Throw in an alcholic parent or a narcissistic mother and it’s a possible future recipe for disaster. Although we may not choose to be a abuser we may marry one who abuses us, essentially taking over where the parent left off. I now know I was in an emotionally abuse marriage for 25 yrs.
Love, NapI completely agree Nap. I used to think it was all hogwash but now I am not sure. I was AMAZED at the number of women in my Cosa group who had been sexually abused as children. They did not grow up and abuse children or necessarily marry pedophiles BUT they all married men who had issues around sexuality and many were on the second or third dysfunctional relationship. Though I am reluctant to admit it ….I am beginning to wonder if this unconscious choosing they talk about may have something to it. karen xx
Well i think that there is unconscious choosing. It may not be the carbon foot print of our childhood, but its off.
I think its not necessarily a dependency, its just history. And in our history we may have not seen or felt what it was like to be truely loved, to feel intimacy even with our family, to know what a loving relationship is, and to be loved and accepted.
I now feel that as an adult, i had no idea what a marriage was. But i still yearned for that intimacy and closeness in a family and marriage. Neither h gave it to me,however at that point in time…i had no idea what it looked like. I do now through reading. I see what has happened.
I too agree that i think there is some truth in that. It will not always be the same factors, but the end result of the over all relationship leaves you feeling the same as it did in childhood. My dad abaonded us, so i have picked two men which were unavailable. One to who knows what the other to his addiction. Both lacked any real intimacy and closeness.
this is similar to what my childhood was. In gorwing up neiter of my parents were affectionate, neither really appeared to care a whole lot about us, and my dad ran out on us when i was about 14, my mom tried to commit suicide.
Love,
FloraMy new theory is that WE are chosen. There is something tender and forgiving about us (We’ve HAD to learn to forgive–or at least to love in spite of). We are fiercely loyal and protective. All of these things, they pick up on. What better partners for them?
I think I picked my SA for the same reason’s, Flora. I have picked 4 men with sexual addictions of some kind. Beyond coincidence, I would say. My counselor says not, however, when I asked him why 4 sex addicts picked me. He thinks it is “Just what’s out there.” I tend to disagree. I have always picked men who were emotionally unavailable to me-problem is, I was always able to dump them when I found out. Steve hooked me REAL GOOD! Guess he is just better at it than the rest.
I agree March, I think we are chosen to some degree, maybe we are agreeable, kind, trusting, loving to a fault.
But I also know for me that I have chosen men (H & prior partner) who are damaged & have issues with sex & intimacy. It is something for me to explore with my therapist, I know part of me thinks that I will love them just the “right” way & I can help them heal their past. Maybe my own God complex :-)!
Really we can not heal others, they have to do that for themselves, just as we can only heal our own pain.You have a point there, March. Still it bears questioning why? Why did they choose us? Is it because on some level they know we will try harder than another to make the impossible work? Is it because they recognize a survivor? I don’t know the answer myself. I only know you damn well better be a survivor to heal from one of these men. Karen x
karen i was a survive my entire life. to do that i never let anything get to me to that part i protected, until him. he was able and i was willing to trust him, with me my whole self. now i have to wonder did he do this to build him self up. or to knock me down. the more i think of our whatever it was i see how the closer we got the further away he got. he once told me he like my independence it took me years to let my guard down only to get pushed off a cliff.
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