- This topic has 46 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 13 years ago by
.
-
Posts
-
On Wednesday we are going for our first polygraph. I am supposed to be thinking up questions. It’s making me nauseous. The problem I am having is that I know that my H is so good at redefining ANYTHING to make it fit his purposes. For instance, if I ask “Have you made love to another woman since we’ve been married” that will be an instant “No”, even if he’s had sex with 20 since then. Because, it’s not “making love”, it’s sex. If I ask the opposite, it’s ‘No”, again, because having sex can be defined as “being intimate”. I thought about asking if H’s lips had touched any other female since the date of our marriage. But then he’ll say yes and list the times he’s seen and kissed his daughters on the cheek, etc. And he’ll use up our time that way like he used up the 2 hr disclosure time flipping through 41 pages of printout he “thought the counselor might consider relevant” but he never read due to wasting time. (which he later gave to me, and it was a doozy but MINUS any incriminating evidence that could be used in court, go figure)
I really need concrete evidence that he has been adulterous, in the definition of the court. But I’m wondering if even this will provide it.
Any questions you used that a truly deceptive SA could not slip out of? What questions tripped up your H, if any?
When my h had his, we were seeing 2 different csat’s who work together (his & hers). When they did the polygraph I gave them my concerns and they dealt with the polygraph guy on how to phrase the questions. They know what they are doing so don’t spend time trying to form questions ~ they don’t want that. Gather questions you really want answered. Have some that are very specific ~ even if you know the answer (your therapist will do this too) That helps establish that the test is working.
Is your therapist working closely with the Polygraph guy? And do you get to meet with the therapist alone with your questions?-I did not get to meet alone with questions. I thought that was odd that my h was there. He felt “ready” for the test, but I think it was a way of tricking him into a false sense of security. They asked questions we didn’t even think of.
And I thought it odd that our polygraph guy would only except cash – $400! I suppose he can’t trust the guy paying him!
Do you think he pays taxes on that cash?
oxymoron = cheating polygraph guy!Lynn, your polygraph tester should be communicating with you about all of this. What the fuck? Two days away, and he/she hasn’t been in touch to explain how it goes? Both testers I’ve used had the same MO. No more than 5 questions, all about the same topic. So what happened was, I clearly defined what a slip or a relapse is: Any type of sexual activity with anyone except your wife–including yourself and including such activities as phone sex, cyber sex, looking at print or online porn, etc. etc. Tester made sure h understood the definition, then the question then became, By this definition, have you had a slip or relapse since blah-blah date? Next, I had him ask about the main acting out partner: Have you had any contact with M since…Has she tried to contact you or have you made any attempt to contact her?
That was pretty much it.
I know, I thought it was weird that nobody had contacted me and H said the counselor had nothing for me to do to prepare. I contacted the polygraph guy myself and HE was surprised they had not asked me to start working on questions. He said that I needed to give him my questions, and he would work with them as far as perfecting them for the test. I am just so afraid I will miss something because of EVERYTHING I have missed so far in this marriage. I just don’t think on those lines, and he’s been able to run all over me because I’m so naive. And ours is $450. Cash.
I wouldn’t worry too much about his interpretation of something pretty specific. He knows he’s full of shit. You should be having a meeting with the polygrapher before hand and he/she will help you word the sentence if you tell them what you want to know. He is supposed to be told the questions before hand and you can let him know that in this case “sexual contact” is defined as follows…. (List things here)
“Have you had sexual contact with…”
I have done quite a bit of research on this topic as I plan to have my H take them regularly. Here is what I’ve learned:
1. You should only go to a polygrapher that is a therapeutic polygrapher and has experience in that form of testing. Preferably one with experience as sex addiction. Ask them how many sex addicts they have done. Do you really want your H to be their third? The most preferred is one who is a former sex addict as they understand the mind of a sex addict. Those are some heavy qualifications I know. Get as close as you can. I plan on going out of state if need be.
2. All the questions should be on the same general topic and there should only be about three questions or so for the most accuracy.
3. It is a good idea to repeat the test in three months to check for accurate results. Particularly if he fails so he can discuss with the counselor why he failed. Not so he/she can help him “pass” the next one but so that they can go over the questions… the definitions and try to help the addict consciously see what he is in denial about and subconsciously lying to himself about as they will make him fail.Even though it may appear like he is being prepped for the test by knowing the questions beforehand, it is actually supposed to assure more accurate results.
Personally, If the polygrapher does not have some serious experience with sex addicts… I wouldn’t care if my counselor recommended them or not… (particularly if the counselor is not a CSAT), I’d be finding a different polygrapher.
You need to have as much faith as possible in the polygrapher. If you feel he/she is at all “shady” or inexperienced, etc… you will never believe the results and all you’re doing is flushing money down a toilet.
This examiner has done SAs for years for this counseling center which focuses on SAs, and he was very supportive of me when I called. I think I’m ok with him.
i will doubt the results, regardless. BUT it won’t matter if I get the proof I need.
I think you should register your complaint about the therapist with the therapist in writing, the counselling centre and copy the Polygraph guy. Keep it simple. Don’t analyze. Just say what your experience was and the impact it had on you. Make SOMEBODY accountable here. Once again, our experience has been ignored, our concerns overlooked, as if this has nothing to do with us.
Diane,
You mean the complaint that I had not been informed that I was to provide the questions? The examiner said that I would be given the opportunity to do that the evening of the polygraph. It appears that they all thought that was enough preparation time, to be told when I arrive that I am providing the questions. Maybe that is ok in their experience, but which of them has lived as the spouse of an SA? Here it does sound like I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt. I’ll have to call the center and ask what is standard procedure, and see if this counselor deviated, and then if so file as you suggest.
Yes.
And, as I said, our experience and needs are being ignored. YOu are being treated as if coming up with these questions is not a re-traumatizing experience. You have no help, no support in the moment. You are supposed to be thinking clearly with no preparation, and putting words to the traumas this man put you through, wondering, well, do I ask specifically about sex with men, blowjobs with men and/or women, fucking men in the ass, or maybe women, sex with children, my neighbour, my best friend, my sister, my daughter, his stepdaught, women in the pew at church, fat women, small boob women, women of difference races, handjobs, sexting, lying about me, masturbating at work at home in the restaurant bathroom or at the Walmart parking lot? Give yourself a break here, Lynn and stick up for yourself.Thank you, Diane for being such a great advocate for us. You put into words the reasons why I haven’t yet wanted to go through the polygraph.
Lynn, sending you hugs and strength. What a weird world they throw us into, where polygraphs become part of our normal vocabulary. xoxo
A very eloquent post Diane. Says it all…I mean trying to find the truth in 3-5 questions with these guys…very hard to know where to begin? Just the same Lynn if all you want is proof maybe you should try to get him to admit to anything that will count as adultery in your questions? Your husband is so slick and so crazy…who the hell knows? He will know what you are trying to get…much like when u went on Anderson…why is he even agreeing to a polygraph?
H wants the polygraph because his counselor said it’s the only way to assure that everything is out in the open so healing can begin and trust can be rebuilt. H still insists that he has been faithful to me. Again, definition is key, because in his mind that means no sexual intercourse with someone else. Sadly, the law agrees with H’s definition.
All the texts, emails, phone calls, leading to checking out previous whore’s websites and masturbating to their nude photos; it never occured to H that THAT could be defined as being unfaithful. H says he knows it is, NOW, because of what he’s learned in counseling and recovery group (forget the trauma it obviously caused me, what do I KNOW about being faithful?). So, H swears that all contacts with other women have stopped completely, and he has not intentionally looked at anything arousing online or otherwise, and has not masturbated, since the day I found out, in October. (Actually, just masturbation does not bother me, but in conjunction with all this it is a death sentence for marriage).
Lynn, I am so upset about this I can hardly speak. But that won’t stop me from writing.
1. Read your first post. Thinking about it was making you sick. This is because coming up with the questions is a re-traumatizing experience and no one in this scenario from counseling centre to counsellor to polygraph tech has afforded you any grasp of that truth. They are treating you like an automaton. YOU ARE NOT SAFE. Hence, PTSD will kick in.
2. Even you make it through that, If you counsellor thinks thinks that “getting it all out into the open” is not a traumatizing experience they are wholly and utterly incompetent. So what is their plan for your trauma experience? How will you be cared for? What if new truth emerges, old truth re-shatters you, new questions develop in your mind as you being to put the pieces of his lies, deceit, betrayal together into a story you didn’t know before? Exactly who is looking after you? YOU ARE NOT SAFE. PTSD will kick in.
3. I am so appalled at this idiot counsellor who has no idea of the depth of betrayal experience that is in the truth for us–things simply beyond our imagining. What kind of idiot assumes that no matter what truth comes out, healing is possible. It isn’t! And it shouldn’t be. Sometimes the SA is just too dangerous. Sometimes healing isn’t possible after learning the truth of the SA we married. It is a final trauma that ruins our capacity for trusting this person ever again. We finally see who it is that we married, and we don’t want it. Has the idiot therapist got a plan for that Trauma?
If not, let me suggest what will happen. Your trauma will be trivialized and his violations and betrayals will also be trivialized down to a size manageable for your idiot therapist, and you will be invited to “work” on the relationship. YOU ARE NOT SAFE, PTSD will kick in.And really, in the list of behaviours, what have our lives become when we are deciding whether just masturbation bothers us, or which combo platters signals the end of the line for us. You are not safe. You are trying to make yourself safe in your head. But you aren’t. I think you need to listen to fear–the symptoms of it. It’s trying to keep you safe.
Please, if there are sisters who can help here, even if you think I”m wrong, please jump in.
much love,
DDiane – I am so sorry my questions are so awful for you to read. Maybe because I’m still in shock on some levels, I am numb, so I treat this pursuit of the key quote that will turn the lock to free me legally in a cold calculating manner. You’re right. The physical symptoms give it away, even if I don’t feel it emotionally.
I will be taken care of, as much as possible. I have an appointment with a counselor for afterwards. She’s not my first choice, hence I’m not seeing her regularly, but I’ve seen her before. She is aware of the history of the situation, and she is calming rather than challenging.
I put $400 cash in the console of my van so that I could just drive away and not look back for a few days if need be, and credit or debit purchases would not clue anyone in to where I am. There’s a glitch, my son and daughter have come down with nasty colds, so their condition may stop me from escaping. If so, I’ll send H away again.
Of course I’m not safe, I’m with an SA. I think of that song quote, “If you’re going through hell keep on going, don’t look back, if you’re scared don’t show it, you might get out before the devil even knows you’re there?”
I did not decide about the masturbation issue based on this SA experience. I have always thought it was wrong to shame people for masturbation, male or female. I think that is part of the weight that fuels this SA in the first place, the cultural bias against normal sexual self expression and exploration makes it an incubator for latent PDs. A discussion for another time, as I know that’s a double edged sword.
I have a question before anyone else chimes in. IF he has committed adultery…what does that mean financially to the ending of your marriage?
lynng- In regards to the polygraph test. My counselor told me there are so many variables when testing that the SA can easily beat it. You gave some good examples above. He also told me that a polygraph would probably not put my mind at ease, since Steve beat the 1st one. I think the final thought for us all is we will never be 100% sure with the polygraph. These guys are such good liers, and they have such distorted thinking (do not process things the way we do) that when asked a question they answer it with that distortion. ie: Steve was asked on the 1st one if he had objectified any women since we started our relationship. That is really open to interpretation because in his mind he was still in denial, and objectification in his mind probably was an entirely different thing than what was intended- therefore, the polygraph showed no deception. Just a thought.
Bottom line, it did nothing to re-assure me because I knew the lying and deception was still going on.
I am not trying to be negative about the polygraph – just realistic.
love to you.Dear Lynn:
I commend you on your bravery, but I think you are taking too much of the responsibility on for yourself. Diane’s points, about your safety and PTSD should not be minimalized. Honestly, in my humble opinion, I think those questions about your welfare in this should be addressed to the incompetant therapist doing the poly. Those really really crucial and important questions of how this affects you, most deeply and profoundly, have not been considered by the therapist at all. Maybe the therapist you are seeing after, can attend with you? is that possible? you need someone there for YOU and you alone.
having money to get away for a bit, while you may need that, is PTSD in transit. the fact that you can’t even return home, or are preparing that may be case, shows PTSD, pretty severe, right there. IT has already started. don’t be the hero, i can handle this I am strong. we are not meant to handle situations like these. it’s returning to the bombsite without a cover. it’s asking for harm. really. even if the one sided therapist doesn’t see it that way.
PLEASE PLEASE HAVE SOMEONE THERE JUST FOR YOU. YOU MATTER.
ps — just food for thought. would you ever go to court without an attorney to rep you?
right now you are going to court. you are the vicitm. the judge (therapist) thinks your ptsd and harm caused by defendent (addict) are irrelevent. because you are codi. partly resp for his awful addiction of which you are possibly about to learn more deep dark truths about. more victimization. or , whe will avoid and lie and not tell a thing. again victimization.
then the judge will say, all done here. go home feel better.
who is fighting for you in that hell hole??? it is completely built against you btw therapist and addict. completely. please don’t walk in un armed. thinking i can handle it.
ok i will shut up now. thanks for listening.
IF he has committed adultery, it means I can get a divorce in 1-3 months, as opposed to waiting for a year’s separation, he will have to pay attny and court costs, I will be much more likely to be able to secure financial assistance from H until I get a job again and maybe even have him continue to carry health care coverage for myself and my children until I can get my own.
As it is without proof, the attny said because we’ve been married only a year and I was working before coming here, I will have to just leave with $0 in the bank of my own, no health care coverage and start from scratch including all the deposits and everything needed to get our own housing. I’ll even have to pay the attny and the court costs as I am the one seeking divorce without grounds.
And I’m not working now and it took me 9mos to get a job the last time I was looking around here. And this time with H has screwed my credit, I found out last month.
Cost to me to get out, then, minimum around $4000. I have nothing now.
And of course, ALL of us will need counseling for a long time, again.
Lynn, my precious sister, your questions are not hard for me to read. The thought of you unsupported in them is what is upsetting.
Dear Lynn,
I am going to ask you something else if I may? You can, of course, choose not to answer and I will be fine with that. Are you ABSOLUTELY certain that you are READY to walk away from this marriage, now, if he answers yes to the question “Have you put your penis inside any other vagina besides mine since we have been married?” (or whatever modification they come up with to narrow it down to that)Because if you are not sure ,then you can cancel this poly for now, see his therapist and confront him directly with what he intended to do for YOU after having this healing f–king disclosure crap, take some time to just breathe, get off the treadmill, stop rationalizing away the pain, accept that most of us are unable to turn our feelings off like a water tap even though we REALLY want to find out something SO HORRENDOUS that it kills every ounce of care we ever had for the maggot, and maybe just regroup abit? Really think about the poly questions and what you need to know or want to know and make these people give you the best service so you can get the best result, and just slow it all down abit. Maybe find a caring therapist you trust so u have real back up after he shares more of his warped motivations with you. Because Lynn, I don’t know why BUT I really feel he might be telling the truth about the intercourse thing and I just don’t know where that is going to leave you tomorrow, dear girl. He may blow you out of the water with some other creepy revelations that you still cannot use legally and you may feel even more trapped. This process of letting go can be very long and vascillating for some of us- most of us it seems. Especially when they have you by the economic balls so to speak.You have left your life behind, loved,moved, married, been betrayed and gone through ALL this shit in the space of a year. Unless you are certain that the answer to that question will give you the emotional closure you need to walk away …I am just saying…it is ok to slow this train down. They have you on their schedule but you don’t need to be on any schedule but your own dear heart. It is your call and not an easy one.
karen xx
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.