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Heidi–everyone else has given such good advice, I dont really have anything new to offer, just wanted to add my support to the mix.
I was grateful for this thread and a little worried about it too, as our first couples counselling session was yesterday. The therapist opened by asking if we had any questions or concerns about the process and I told her I had read both Patrick Carnes, and Barbara Steffens and that I was concerned about being put into treatment mold that I didnt feel fit me. She really seemed to get it, and I felt comfortable that she is open minded. Not a CSAT, but a therapist who is doing her phd dissertation on sex education. I liked her and have my fingers crossed.
My sah was open and nice (but he usually is in front of other people). We didnt have the after therapy fight that we had every time when we were in counselling 10 years ago, so that also seems like a good sign.
Z-girl–your comment about “this is all you will want to talk about” cracked me up. My husband says every discussion I want to bring up the “kitchen sink” (which is his last bout of deception/acting out/getting herpes and possibly impregnating a stranger)! Unbelievable that they see this as trivial, or at least want to make it trivial.
Hugs to all of you!They see this as trivial. So true. In my process of learning the truth, I have learned that my H and his previous wife were in counseling 3 times, a total of 7 years, in their marriage. Fast forward to present day.
Our CSAT asked if H had been in counseling before.H replies “Yes, three times, about 7 years total, in my previous marriage of 25 years, before I met my current wife.”
Counselor – “For porn addiction, or for the use of prostitutes, or both?”
H – “Neither, that was never mentioned.”
Counselor – “Why not? You said you’ve had this addiction since you were 14?”
H – There was always something else the counselor wanted to talk about.
Exactly. That is how these guys operate they never offer it up, as being part of the issues in the relationship that should be discussed.
Me and my exsah were in therapy, before we ever married. He never mentioned his post smoking and excessive use thereof during childhood, never mentioned he was molested as a child…and of course never mentioned his supposed porn addiction. I was thrown under the bus, in that i must have trust issues. He loves me so much and would never hurt me. I think we had been dating for about a year when we went, and then he proposed after we dated for about two years, married at three. After five years of marriage we are splitsville. It was never meant to be. and build of quick sand.
Ugh.
FloraWe were in couples’ counseling three different times, with three different counselors, over a period of 7 years. About a year into the marriage, after I caught him having cybersex (just experimenting, the Internet was young then), and again right after I’d built the trust back and then saw emails between him and his secretary (just flirting). We saw a man for a while, who was terrible, so we found someone else. Anyway, through all of that, the counselors bought all he was selling. He’d made small mistakes and was suffering disproportionately because of the sins of my father. I was distrustful, hyper-vigilant, etc. Then, yes, the classic after-fights in the parking lot. It was my fault, it was a waste of his time, he was humiliated…No mention of sex addiction, adoption issues, his undercurrent of anger. And now he wants ME to go with him to couple’s counseling. Naw, I have all my credits, thanks.
March,
Is it difficult living with him after the divorce? Does he plan to leave or are you planning to stay living together? If it’s none of my business just say so.
Love, NapOhhh yeah march totally. Same thing here. Trust issues because of my father. Never mind the fact he WAS lying. Unbelievable. An yet we are co-something??
I am guilty of believing the best in people and giving the benefit of the doubt. i think that is key to what i have learned in this. If you are having to give someone the benefit of the doubt….in other words…talking yourself into what they are saying…and ignoring your gut…run for the hills. If you feel sorry for them…run. If you think poor blah blah blah…he has had such a tough life…run. If you feel pity…run. If you feel bad about yourself and what you have to say…run. If you feel like you are being a bully…run. These are tells. Relationships whould not be hard. We should not be going to couseling with a guy we just met, we should not have to be the blame and we should not ever have to doubt ourselves.
Love,
FloraIf you feel you are beggin for his attention or are needy…run.
This is what i have learned. Before i was a clueless romantic. I felt i would find the one. But i was in fact a poster child for fraud.
for anyone new check out love fraud .com. She has a questionnaire that you can take to find out how succeptable you are to a sociopath/fraud. I think it is very similar to what we have going on with our h’s.
I think that all the aforementioned examples of going to couples counselling with an insane person illustrates the utter fultility of the exercise. 🙁
NAP – did his prevous wife know he was a sex addict? He wouldn’t tell me if she did, and she doesn’t talk to me at all. She lives on the opposite side of the continent, now. I can see why.
All the stuff he complained about her doing, it seems she must have at least suspected.
That fact, that he could talk for hours and hours in marriage counseling over 7 years in an “attempt” to save his marriage and not once mention his SA behavior, combined with H telling me he felt he could continue his SA behavior indefinitely while we were married because he was ‘more clever than” me, those are the ones that kill everything.
His journal said they talked mostly about his exwife’s control issues, and how that was killing the marriage. I saw that he’s written in his counseling notes now about the emotional abuse he suffers at my hands, now. Geez.Hi Lynn,
Tell him he is free to do as he pleases..but to never come home. These guys have a choice. They can always leave, however its easier to contiually blame us.
I agree. Geez.Wish I could, this house was his and his exwife’s. We have to sell it and give her half the equity. So, my name was never on the deed here. I would be the one who had to go, and I’m trying really hard to be prepared well for that moment.
I know you ladies know I don’t abuse my H. He’s talking about the yelling when I found out. Then, the silent treatment and sexual withdrawl afterwards. I actually spit on his hand when he touched me after I’d asked him not to, after I found out that he’d been with hookers unprotected before being with me. I threatened to take him to jail then for rape by deception if I came up with any diseases. (His counselor told us that was possible, but had not been successful in the US and would be a waste of time and money.) I ripped up all my lingerie catalogs and threw them in the floor then away. I wake up screaming, sometimes even at him, from deep sleeps. Now, I always expect the worst of him and never give him the benefit of the doubt. I’m suspicious, touchy, sarcastic,… basically, I’m a bitch, now.
But he doesn’t want a divorce, he wants to win me back. Oh well.
NAP, some days are harder than others. I had a total meltdown last Saturday, during which I rehashed it ALL, from the beginning. I was upset he’d shed not a single tear about the divorce. He told me he’s not upset about the divorce because he still considers us married. I said that’s because rules don’t apply to him, that he considers us as married now as we ever were in his world. I told him it’s different for me, though, since I kept my promises, since I was truly married and faithful for all those years. I said that I am NOT married now; I’m free to fuck whoever I want. So he asked me if that meant I wanted to date. And I said, “Maybe. Probably.” And he looked incredibly hurt and I felt better. This week, I’ve managed to get out of that weird purgatory place I’ve been in mentally, where I feel neither married nor divorced. For the past couple of days, I’ve felt oddly free. I’m not having to struggle with money, which is good; my child has not been affected; and he does whatever I ask. In other news, he’s still seeing the adoption therapist weekly; he’s going to at least one SA meeting a week, sometimes two; he’s talking to me about what’s going on in his head; and he’s about to take another polygraph.
Wow, March; he’s taking the polygraph NOW? How does that make you feel? (If you feel like answering).
Remember, he failed one last summer and maintains he’s innocent. Another test is one condition of his staying in the house. Of course, he has to pass. If he doesn’t, he’s out. We’re already divorced, so that’ll be that. I said it here. Hold me to it.
isn’t it odd.
I separated within 5 months of D-day, and here I am 30 months after d-day, just now summoning up the energy to put the first joint file papers together.
March, you got yourself unhitched but kept him around and might yet still.
POlygraphs-some use them, and some think it’s beyond the pale.
Our needs are the same but different. We can only tell our story and let it stand in the community with all the others.I hope the outcome is what you really want March. You are such a luminous person, I can understand why he wants to stay around.
And me March! Diane has such great words. Who doesn’t want to be luminous? If I remember correctly the part he ahs to pass is does he know where his affair partner is or has he had contact with her since….?? That should be easy enough to get out of a properly crafted question. The answer….that can be the tricky part March. I have faith in you and your decisions. I think you know who you are and what you want. Karen xx
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