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Hi Sisters,
So I don’t even know where to begin. This weekend has been pretty awful. Friday night, I did something I was not proud of. To back up a bit, I just feel like my husband has been more self-involved again. It’s all been work, home-renovations, and then hanging out by himself in the hottub when he needs some r & r. And of course, Friday nights are guy-nights with the buddies. I’ve been feeling like all of the sad and desperate promises he made after March 2011 have all but disappeared. Now, I’ve been posting here on and off about some of the bad moments I’ve had, but I kept telling myself, give him time/give it time. There were a lot of encouraging days and weeks over the past 8 months.
Well, Friday night he went to bed before me. And because of what seemed to be a growing disconnect on his part, I was feeling that desperate need again to find answers. So, I snooped on his work computer. He told me I was welcome to look on that computer any time, as that’s where he logs our finances.
What I did find was his journal that he’s been keeping on and off since March (much less frequently in recent months). Way back in the beginning, he said I could read it if I needed to. I said, no, I wouldn’t, as I wanted him to be able to write what he needed to. (I don’t remember if I PROMISED not to read it, but he claims I did). So I did something that goes against “me” and invaded his privacy and read it.
Here’s what I found out:
1. There were some good things…he really seemed to want to recover and to want to figure out how. He proudly noted his milestone days of sobriety. However:
2. There were several entries about how he wanted to help me get through it, and his therapist told him there was nothing he could do to help me (WTF???? Am I wrong about feeling weird about this??)
3. Many of his entries talked about MY anxiety, and how that is an issue for him. He also talked about how my low self-esteem and anxiety made me undesirable.
4. He talked about how difficult it was for him to deal with my moods switching from hopeful to angry.
5. By the same token, he talked about how my hopes for happiness seemed to depend on his recovery. (Well, at that stage, ya think??? Finding out your twenty year marriage was a sham, and the life you built together was a fake?? I mean didn’t his therapist even discuss with him why I would feel that way????!!, esp so soon after a second major d-day?? And btw, I really have no hope in his therapist. Maybe I don’t in any therapists.)
5. He talked about how he needed to establish boundaries about HIS privacy so that I wouldn’t control his recovery.
5. And finally, there was an entry from mid-October talking about how he had watched porn a few times, and felt that masturbating two times a day would be necessary to relieve stress, and that he had changed his mind about the no-masturbating policy. (Now somewhere since mid/early October, he switched from going to SA meetings to using Candeo. I knew he was having trouble sticking with the concept of the meetings, and I am ok with that change. I also know from his journal that he DID appear to be going to the meetings, and not skipping them. Anyway, it’s possible this masturabation change-of-heart came before starting Candeo. But now I’m rambling.) But I bring this up because I have asked him if he’s had any trouble/slips and he said no. So seeing what was in his journal triggered me. The smart thing would have been to keep to myself, and just let it be that “I know what I know.” But I didn’t do that–I had a meltdown and lost it. I ran upstairs and woke him up and told him to get out.
He refused, saying it was his house too. We had a pretty awful fight–Ugh, I screamed at him that I hated him, I was done, etc. He told me I had violated his trust just as he had violated mine. I went back downstairs to collect myself and just kind of sat in the dark for a few minutes. I heard him come down, slam his computer shut, and throw a glass in the sink.
Anyway, I decided I needed to go back upstairs and it least talk about it without screaming. When I got up there THE DOOR WAS LOCKED!! FUCKER! So I kicked it in. So needless to say, this wasn’t a time for calm discussion. I ended up sleeping on the couch.
The next morning he told me he thought we should continue to live together until our daughter graduates from highschool (3 and a half years!!!!!!), and just live our separate lives. What an asshole. I told him um, I didn’t imagine I could do that. So we talked some more…he was teary-eyed. I told him I was sorry for reading his journal because that’s not the person I am, but I’m not sorry for the information it gave me. He went on and on again about how it’s HIS recovery, and he needs to keep some things private. And then this….big drum roll…he said that he thought his “problem” gave me a diversion from working on my anxiety issues!!!!!!(Now ladies, I have to back pedal a bit here. I do have some generalized anxiety disorder. I’ve worked on it with a therapist, I’m also on an antidepressant/anti-anxiety med which has been very helpful. But I also feel his actions of the past however many years have increased my anxiety tenfold. So yeah, I’m feeling a BIT bitter.) He feels that our problems our equal, and he “hopes we both get better.” UGHHHHHHHH.
(BTW, I’m sorry if this is choppy. I keep having to turn the computer on and off because of lurking people. But I have to get this out on paper TODAY.) SO ff to a few hours later in the day. I asked him if he’s still masturbating twice a day. He said he “hasn’t done it twice a day in years.” I also asked him where he accessed porn. He said he doesn’t remember doing it (only 3 weeks ago?????). He also said that writing in his journal is just a thought process; it doesn’t mean things have really happened. He also said he HAS NOT acted out at all since d-day 2. FF 15 minutes, he came back in the kitchen and somewhat angrily confronted me, saying he thinks my questions are unfair, and that they should be off the table since I read from his journal and invaded his privacy. He challenged me to produce any documentation saying that full transparency is necessary for recovery.
So after all this went down, I told him he was right–that we probably wouldn’t end up together. (For the first time in 8 months, my hopes of any recovery or of me forgiving even WITH recovery are just down the tubes. I think I’ve finally accepted it, and that’s the place I came to this weekend.) I also told him, though, that I’m not planning to try to live here until our daughter graduates, and now that we know where things are going, don’t expect me to keep his secret. I told him I just couldn’t live the pretend life in front of everyone anymore. (And it doesn’t mean I’ll be vindictive and start adverstising it, but I it’s time to be honest—well overdue.)
Well, I think that shook him up because he’s been sweet and kind since that time last night. We even had to go to a 40th b-day party together–he held my hand walking across some rocky terraine–THAT’s a first! Ugh; I know he’s playing nice to placate me.
So anyways, I guess the reason I’m writing this all down is because I FINALLY saw the scary person that he is (or that I don’t understand he is). I’m really relating to Annie M’s “feeling torn in half post.” Part of me still feels bad that I stooped to the level of reading someone’s journal, because that never would have been “me”, and I’m not proud of it. Plus, I also hate the fact that in his mind that “leveled the playing field”, and when push comes to shove, I wonder what he will tell people about “my anxiety issues.” Ugh. (p.s., btw, his mom was a severe agoraphobic for his growing up years. Friday night I had shouted at him that he owed me transparency because when I married him I didn’t know what I was getting into. He shouted back that he didn’t know I was going to turn into his mother. REALLY????!!!! FUCKHEAD.)
So I guess I just need to figure out the details of my life from here. Right now, I’m feeling torn between devastated that this person isn’t “just” an addict with a problem that he can fix (for I no longer believe that by any stretch), and on the other side of the coin, feeling free to know that I can stop hoping. I’m just letting that all sink in for today, and then I will go from there…
Thanks for reading. XOXO JulieJulie,
Do you have a counselor? I would share all this with them. My H did a very similar thing to me. He equalizes our “problems”, says I am OCD (my counselor says no), admits to expressions of anger but now says it was only in response to my meanness and cruelty. He reworks the past. I am not OCD. He used to say I was the nicest person he knew. He now alluded to the idea that being with me was killing him, that my problems (???) were why he was spiraling downward.
I looked at his was of repackaging our relationship as part of his personality disorder. Maybe it’s what SA’s do.
Don’t accept what he is saying. But also try to separate your happiness from his recovery. (For me that meant divorce. I know some on this site are able to do that staying married. I couldn’t.)
BTW, my H’s therapist has made similar statements about me. I am sure far more than he has told me. They seem so inclined to see their patient as a victim, even though their actions are so harmful. So unrealistic to think that sex addiction would NOT lead a spouse to be sad, anxiety-ridden, depressed.
In the second paragraph, I think I meant to say that I thought his was of “repackaging our relationship” was the result of a personality disorder. However, maybe all SAs have a hard time taking responsibility and try to spread blame around . . . to get it away from themselves.
I am so sorry for your awful weekend.
I hope you come to terms with your guilt about looking at his journal. I don’t think you did anything wrong at all. I believe these men, through their lies and secrets, have given up the right to privacy.
All I hear from what you wrote is a man who is still minimizing his actions (by deeming them equal to anxiety. Totally outrageous.); still in denial and lying (by now trying to claim he hadn’t looked at the porn or cannot remember); still blaming and blame shifting (you and your “problems”); and making excuses. He is trying deflect from himself using anger, guilt and blame. Taking all of HIS bullshit and dumping it directly into YOUR lap and saying, “here, deal with this. I’m not going to” In the meantime he is just spewing a lot of crap trying to back peddle his way out of the deep hole he has dug for himself.
Ironic though how he is so concerned abut you yet he is indulging in actions that led to the very things that hurt you so deeply. Masturbation is simply playing with fire for a sex addict. He is dipping his toes into the water of his former actions and thinking he can play around in the shallow end of the ocean with no regard for the waves that roll in, knock you off your feet and drag you under.
Using your anxiety against you is a self-serving low blow. I doubt there are very many spouses of sex addicts that don’t find themselves with depression and/or anxiety issues regardless of their history with the problems. If they are preexisting problems it is only HUMAN to have this BS amplify those problems. He wants you to suck it up and move on because it causes HIM problems.
Reading the fierceness of your fight takes me back to many a scene like that here. I felt like a crazy ranting raving lunatic. He makes me feel like I have completely lost my mind and along with it, control of myself.
And you are completely my hero for kicking that door in!!!!
Julie, I commented on this post in response to your question under the ‘Another Voice’ topic.
Love you bunches ~ JoAnn
Hi ZG,
I’m sorry for your suffering. I had many similar experiences with my SA. Eventually, in time, the facade breaks down for both people. Then all that is left is the truth. Some choose to deny it, some choose to see it. It was hard for me to see it however after living in a motel 5 months, I saw the truth really clearly.
Love, NapHi Julie,
So sorry you are having a terrible weekend.I would not feel bad about reading the hournal one bit…why? because its the only way to get a shred of truth. No there is no secrecy in “recovery” that is such bs it angers me. There is no way to recover from a “secret” addiction and lies…by keeping more secrets and telling more lies. I am so sorry Julie.
But i think you found your limit.
Love ya, flora
zgirl………you had every right to read his journal. I have a feeling that you did it because you finally “listened” to your anxiety. Thats why I checked out my h’s ipad. I believe our anxiety is a symptom, not a disorder.
I am so sorry that you are feeling terrible. You are such a happy, sweet person, you deserve to be treated better, and he knows it. And he feels guilty about it. That is why he is trying to put it all on you. Don’t take the bait. Let him feel the impact. My therapist told me that I am doing all my h’s feeling for him. she is right. because he has no feelings, just here to have fun.
And our h’s therapists have no business diagnosing us! And I think that they don’t ~ how unprofessional. I do think our h’s are taking bits and pieces and twisting it into whatever they want to hear. Challenge him on this next time. Say you want to go see his therapist and have him explain you and your feelings, seeing as he has an opinion. I bet you h backs down.
I hate that he hurt you again.
my friend who is a beef farmer told me this is why they only keep one good bull. The rest of them go to Campbell’s soup.I am trying to picture you as a super hero kicking in the door.
still trying to visualize the cape color.
I bet you scared the crap out of him.be strong.
Hugs
HeidiOh, Julie, I am so sorry. I have a serious anxiety disorder too, and my h has told me something similar to yours, implying that this has something to do with my reaction to the devastation he caused. Well uh, no, not really. My OCD fixates primarily on fearing something will happen to my son. My reaction to having my life turned upside down by my h is frigging normal, thank you very much. My h used to use my ‘anxiety disorder’ as a way to lure his Craigslist gfs. Poor poor, long-suffering guy. barf. And oh my God, my h throws his mother at me too, every time I get angry or sarcastic. What is wrong with these guys??
And I have to say you have enormous willpower to have not read his journal until now. Screw his privacy.. He forfeited that when he up and wrecked your life. I hate how self-righteous these idiots are in the face of what they’ve done.
Take care of you, Julie.. baby steps.
Love,
Annie xoxop.s. Like Heidi said, I was intrigued and impressed by you being able to kick in the door.. You go, girl.. Score one for the sisterhood!
Dear Julie,
FINALLY!!!! You KNOW the answer to the question. You have known it since you found the video on your computer. Trust your feelings and do not back pedal. When you give up the hope foryour relationship you will be free to develop hope for your own life. It isn’t too late for you Julie but if you wait another decade your options may be less. BIG HUG Karen xx
Julie,
If you need to talk or want to I would be happy to. You can PM your number to me. Only if you wish to okay just want you to know I care about you.
Love, NapBrava!!! You kicked in the door!!!
Good for you Julie!!!
But honey, I also feel so badly for you…and I’m spitting blood, I’m so angry about this unbelievable mindfuck that’s foaming in copious amounts outta his addict mouth.
Now let me make sure that I’m understanding this correctly? He says that you are using HIS sex addiction— his making videos with hookers and leaving them, laying around as your attempt at a DIVERSION from your anxiety disorder and that you EACH have equal issues? Who told him that?
Why, that one statement alone is enough for a swift slap in the kisser.
My h also has said, that perhaps, I get some kind of “pleasure” out of ruminating over what has happened, instead of just moving on from it.
right– of course. I love it. It’s so wonderful, to be on the verge of sleep– FINALLY at 4:00AM, only to be awakened, by a deafening FEAR in the pit of my stomach. sure. very enjoyable.
It is so typically addict-like to say that because you read his journal, it is your attempt to “control his recovery.” If he was truly recovering, he would welcome your reading it, but he’s hiding shit and he knows it… like the masturbating– TWICE a day, for “stress” relief, which he says to you, that he’s not doing.
LIARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!
Where’s that Silver Lining Bitch when we really need her???
hahaha!!! Well, I’m just going to have to take her place (if I can, for now) 😉
ARE YOU KIDDING ME???
stress from what??
what a fucking joke.
and then, the gaslighting of all gaslighting…
“He also said that writing in his journal is just a thought process; it doesn’t mean things have really happened.”
Just a minute mister… it doesn’t fucking matter.
its what he wrote that matters and it is obvious that he is not truly recovering, which he also understands on some level, or he wouldn’t have gotten so angry.
And– YES, YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO READ HIS JOURNAL, because you have a need and a right to know if you are safe or not. If he can’t or won’t understand this, then he is NOT a recovering anything. He’s a narcissistic prick. (which he is, anyway).
There are NO secrets in a healthy marriage. Why doesn’t he understand this?
rhetorical question.
Unfortunately, I believe that these very painful episodes need to happen before we’ve finally made the decision that enough is enough, otherwise, we would just go on as we were. right?
You knew instinctively, because of his every day behavior that he was not thoroughly immersed in recovery, and your instincts were proven to be true.
I say, good for you, and please… the “nice act” makes me wanna throw up…First he’s screaming at you, that you are as sick as he is, and then he’s trying to make it up to you?
what a sicko.
love and hugs,
L
Julie,
I understand the bad feelings about reading journals. My H left one for me to read, and eventually I did. There were good and bad things in there. Lots of stuff that ended up in fights. In the end, I don’t think I’ll do it again. It was baiting me, I believe, and as it was a flashdrive, I think it was actually “truncated” or cut down, to leave out the worst stuff. I don’t think my view is any clearer. But I do believe their behavior has changed the “rules of conduct” to the degree that what was once private now is not. I’m struggling with that, too, though. I need privacy, and I’m not willing to think that he doesn’t. But how to honor it?
One comment really jumped out at me, though:
“He challenged me to produce any documentation saying that full transparency is necessary for recovery.”This troubles me. In counseling, I think sometimes they get the idea if they do things right, we’ll leave them alone. The issue is that they are not consulting US about OUR needs in rebuilding a relationship with – not the frigging counselor – US. We know what we need, forget the counselor and their proofs. If they had this down, this recovery situation would be completely different. They don’t know, period. It’s all a work in progress.
You ask for what you need, and stick by your guns. Who cares what is documented?
Dear ZG,
Dreadful weekend. I am so upset that your situation with your SA is pushing you over the edge. I agree with Sunny who suggested talking it through a therapist. You need support through this. It’s just too hard, honey and you’re just too important to leave it as is.IMO, I think its important for us to accept our limits, our needs, as much as theirs. I am tired of the incessant SA whine for understanding and compassion for their “human frailties” but there really is no time or energy to spend in understanding or compassion for our “human frailties”. We are all supposed to be perfect, superwomen, unstoppable, and resilient. Well we aren’t. We’re human too.
If women want to live that way, without mutuality of understanding and compassion, that’s their right. But let’s not call it love. Let’s just call it co-dependency and be done with it.
OPrah’s life class “love doesn’t hurt” is relevant, it think.
Annie: ” My reaction to having my life turned upside down by my h is frigging normal, thank you very much.”
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
This forum has made me appreciate my H’s CSAT so much. Every few months she aks me to rate on a scale of 1-10 how hurt I still feel; how much I have forgiven my H; where my trust level is. If I answer “6”, she will say, “ok… what can de done to make it a 7? Is there anything he can do to help?” She asks me very regularly what I need from him at this point of recovery.
I have no idea how old she is but it is well past retirement age. I’m waiting for her to retire on us. Ugh!!! The last excellent psychologist I had retired and moved to Costa Rica. Bastard!
My answer to the therapist when she would ask is there anything he can do to help would be…
Yes. absolutely. It would help a lot if he jumped off a bridge. 🙁
Hi friends,
I just want to respond to each and every one of you—you are all so caring. I will do that, but for now it’s late, and I just need to add a couple of quick thoughts. First of all, as far therapy, Sunny you brought up something I could relate to. After my first d-day (June 09, where I saw the videos), my SA said that he felt like my anxiety was a trigger for him. So I researched a therapist who told me she felt like I had some mild anxiety, but some of it was just personality. She just didn’t see it in a pathological sense. I hate to play armchair psychologist, but I KNOW he was (and still is) projecting his mother onto me. I do have a “worrier” type of personality, but it was there when we met. And I’m not saying that I shouldn’t try to better myself, but I’ve been jumping through hoops to do that–therapy and meds. But I still feel like it’s never enough for him. He uses it against me at every turn. When things come up that would normally make someone feel a bit anxious/tentative, he calls me out on “my anxiety.” I get depressed feeling I can never be who he wants me to be.
I also wanted to add something I remembered from the other night. When he said we should just stay together for the next 3+ years until my daughter graduates, he said it was clear that we had “mutual contempt for one another.” So we should just live our lives and keep things together for three years. WTF?? What kind of healthy life is that??? This is what really turned the screw for me. What have I done deserving of CONTEMPT??? Not to mention, I really feel like he’s a mental patient with that theory that staying together “living separate lives” for three years is a good idea.
So tonight, since he’s been all “nicey-nice” for the past 24 hours, I had to ask him if he still felt contempt for me. He said, “Let’s not go there. I just want to put this whole incident behind us. No good can come of it.” ummm……
So now he’s sleeping like a baby. Of course.Zumbagirl
I am so sorry that you are going through this.
I do hope you have access to a counselor/therapist for you and just for you. Please take care of yourself.
Your husband’s behavior sounds so familiar to me (and probably to every woman here) – deflection, blame, anger at you, making it all about him, inability to empathize, etc. Interspersed with times of caring and even tenderness. It is confusing, heartbreaking and infuriating all at the same time. No wonder that door was toast! Anyway, after many years of living on this roller coaster I have decided to move on. That was one year ago. It was the most difficult decision I have ever made. The first months were so agonizing. But lately I am noticing subtle differences in myself. A little more energy every day. Energy that had been lost worrying and wondering about and investigating things that someone in a healthy relationship wouldn’t think twice about. An ability to focus on things that haven’t mattered to me in a long while. I am learning to listen to my inner voice again. It is a comfort to know that voice is still there. There is joy coming back in my life and the source of the joy is in rediscovering my own strength, confidence, intelligence and capabilities. I had lost myself for awhile.
I am not giving advice either way. Just sharing my experience. Whatever choice you make will take you on a difficult, painful journey, but you (like all of us) can do difficult things. There is no rush to decide. Take your time. Give yourself the time, kindness and love (and space if you can) to really think about what is best for you. The great thing is that there is help and support available to you.
Take care.
EllenAnd I need to add to the above, I get it…I deserve better. For him to be what I need and now know I deserve, would be nothing short of a miracle. I’m getting there….baby steps…but getting there.
Honey, he feels contempt because you ripped off his mask. That’s all. You exposed him for who he really is, and he can’t tolerate that.
You’re a lovely delightful, woman and even though we were only together a short time, I detected no obvious anxiety or worry or anything like that. I’m not saying that you don’t, but sooooooo? You worry a bit too much (maybe) and he screws hookers… hmmm… no wonder he detests you! 🙁
you worrier you… how could you??? :/
but, i also cringed when he made that comment about staying together until your daughter finishes school! WTF? is right!!!
Look, I know I go on and on, but for all of our men, they are not ALL bad… right? If they were ALL BAD, then we would’ve left a long time ago… and we hang onto the GOOD and tell ourselves that the bad isn’t “so bad”, is it?
well, I think there comes a point for a lot of us, when the scales just begin to tip too far to the “its really bad” side… and the good just doesn’t matter any more, cause even the most delicious whipped cream turns sour if not taken care of properly.
And who wants to divorce? After all, divorce is such an icky ugly situation that we never wanted and never dreamed would happen to US??? how could it? Why our husbands were our princes– until…
BTW, my h also projects his mother onto me. (although, we are nothing alike!)
interesting.
After I learned in June that my husband had slept with my best friend eight years ago and that they had kept their secret all this time while still communicating by e-mail and phone, my anxiety went through the roof. I couldn’t sleep, would be awake until 2 or 3 am. Dreadful. Only after we started sleeping in separate bedrooms did it subside a bit. However, now that I know that he has acted in predatory ways against me e.g. inviting two men who he met on the sex website into our home, lying about how he met them, now I know that my anxiety was my intuitive reaction to his craziness. My body was sensing all along that something was badly wrong with him and that it was endangering me. The anxiety wasn’t my reaction to his acting out, it was a normal reaction to the unconscious knowledge that he was predatory. So listen to your body. It doesn’t lie. Sending all of you strength, peace and love.
I am sorry Lauren. Hookers are bad enough but a friend must be agony and a double betrayal. I don’t understand these people. I don’t understand them at all. Take care and strenght, peace and light to you too. Karen xx
Dear Z Girl,
I know it is very difficult to NOT take to heart the things they say BUT please remember your husband is CRAZY and trying to figure out his logic will make you crazy too. 🙂 It isn’t a crime to be anxious. I think it might be a crime to video yourself with a hooker and post it on the home computer. Don’t listen to what he says. He is trying to diminish you and frighten you by threatening the marriage. He is a fool. He blew the marriage up a long time ago and he didn’t do it because you were anxious. If I were you I would gather ANY evidence I could because when you finally start to talk it is my guess he is going to try to turn blame around on you? Don’t let him convince you that you are sick like him. You are not. Karen xx
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