Who Among us is Staying?

joann i think some maybe its all part of their acting out. i would not put anything past them. i do not believe any two people are the same. but could abusing be part of their thing, not all but some

I know that there are a lot of just plain mean people out there–always have been and always will be, and some may be Sex Addicts.

A Sex Addict’s behaviors are certainly harmful to us and hurt us deeply, but I think there is a difference between hurting us because they are acting out or hurting us purposefully.

It’s as you said, no two people are the same, and, we should not paint them all with the same broad brush.

My h was not intentionally mean or abusive when I married him. As his use of porn got worse, as he felt more shame from it, he lashed out at me and I took the brunt of his rage. He created reasons to storm at me. His passive aggressive stuff got worse. His changing of reality or repackaging and warping what had happened got worse. Intentional? Maybe not, but I still hold him responsible. The years of marriage counseling with an excellent therapist did not help at all. His behaviors got worse.

And I do not believe Lexie was saying no to boundaries. I believe she was saying that we cannot tie our health to their recovery. I cannot tie my well-being to whether or not my h will stay in recovery. If you stay, you almost have to prepare for and expect that the SA behaviors can and probably will reappear.

Lexie, I am so sorry to hear about your son. Knowing now and getting help for him now may save him from decades of SA hell.

I’m sorry, Joann, but when an SA engages in behaviors that dance along the edges of their addiction OR fully immerse in it, they react towards those close to them in ways that are not kind. I remember the posts you wrote while Larry was engaging in behaviors and you called him on them. I remember what you wrote about how he was treating you, things he was saying. It was mean. And based on everything you have written about him, I do not believe he is inherently a mean person. Shame brings out meanness as all those bad feelings are externalized out towards others.

i think if the abuse of wrong doing is covered up, lied about, etc. then they are well aware they are doing it and it is/ was on purpose. many times i want to do something even in a moments thought yet i do not and if i do i own up to it. i get the addiction crap. but once it is admitted and they know. all bets are off. i dont buy the shit they didnt know what to do. they sure as did or they wouldnt lie. ingrained thats all they know we are not talking 5 year plds. have anyone wondered if this was a predominantly womans thing would the men accept what we have. would the medical field continue the way they had. i very much doubt it

I’m gonna throw it out that it depends on how you define abuse. As for me, lying to your wife and carrying on a secret life that risks both her physical and mental health is “abuse,” no matter how you slice it. Which reminds me–Laurel’s son is an example of an SA who is NOT an abusive coward. He’s admitted to the problem before he could hurt a partner. Good for him and god bless.

This is such a heated topic, and I want to thank Ms. Lindy for her post.

I have been letting myself just sit with what is being posted here and digest what is happening.

My thoughts are that I feel sad that Ms. Lindy indicates there are times that she does not share about good things. My experience here on SOS has been one of complete acceptance, guidance, encouragement and support. There would be no reason for me to be on this site if I did not feel that the sisters did not have my best interest in mind. After what we have all been through, we have developed a pretty keen awareness level of when we are being manipulated. We have been exposed to degrees of self entitlement that many people have not been exposed to. It is the common experience and being heard and validated that draws us to be so close to each other. I would have never knew,in a million years, that I could develop the kind of bonds with other woman and never have come in physical contact with them. Offering the kind of intimate and frank discussions that we experience on this site is something that in my state of trauma was a life saver for me. I am forever grateful to JoAnn for having the strength and foresight to have developed SOS and Married, so that we could have this forum of support.

With that in mind, please understand that I believe that the woman that have been posting and that I have interacted with have a heart of nurturing and supportive care. Lets not lose sight of that. This is a very difficult thing that we are all going through, and each of us are going to handle and cope with the individuality that we each bring to the site.

I hope that anyone who has the need to post something or ask questions would not hesitate. I do not think that anyone here is judging. We would not be here if that was our intent. I know that sometimes I get overwhelmed and do not have the strength to post or ask questions because I am feeling to low or alone. I think there is an eb and flow of when relationships are working and when they are not, just like a couple who is not experiencing SA.

Sometimes voices here are strong and sometimes the voices are weak and struggling, but either way, they are voices that are coming out of suffering. That is what is bringing us all together in the first place. It is the common suffering that has brought us together. I do not think that anyone wants their marriage to break up. If that were the case, they would not be here. They would not really care what happens to the person who brought this into their life. We are all here because we DO care. You can hear it and see it behind the words of both strength and weakness.

What I have gained here is the support of loving and honoring myself. As painful as it has been to discover that our spouse has SA, it is often even more painful to become aware of how I did not respect myself. I think that is what is at the heart of what we want for each and every one of us here on this site.

I know that I support anyone choosing to stay with their husband and guide him with recovery. That is what I choose for myself. I also choose to respect and honor myself and that is what I gained from the validation of what others have experienced in their life. The crazy making behavior of living with an SA is something that can bring us close to the edge, and being able to share those moments is helpful. Sharing the good moments is also helpful to bring hope to struggling relationships. When we are hopeful and feeling like change is present, we do not want to be reminded to stay focused and not lose site of reality. When one of the sisters ask us to be careful with our heart, it is not from a judging perspective, but out of a caring one. We are being protective of you and that might be something that feels like judgement. It is not! It is one that is saying, I am glad that you are feeling good about what you are seeing with your husband. We are encouraging you to stay on that road and not get sidetracked into falling into our old familiar behaviors of accepting “crumbs” of emotional support. We know how we are. We know how this happened. Although we did not always know that our husbands were engaging in sex outside of the marriage, we knew that something was amiss. Finding out about the sex was the boundary for me to stand up for myself and my needs.

It is not for anyone here to judge anyone else for how they are choosing to live their life. Having said that, however, you would not be here if you were not looking for answers or validation for your choices. I appreciate everyones honesty along with their supportive guidance that are given in a nurturing and caring perspective. I feel like that is what is happening here. I love that we have gotten to know each other well enough to bring up issues that we all don’t agree on. That is what a family and sisters are all about. Loving guidance. This is a safe place for us. A safe haven in the midst of turmoil and heartache.

hugs {{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Very nicely said Cindy. Thank you.

Sunny, where you said,

“However, I am now at a place where I see all men in the same way, and I don’t think I will ever believe I would ever be anything other than a way to relieve a sexual impulse,”

I know what you mean. And not about just myself, but life in general. I hope this will change over time, but my world view has shifted rather weirdly in a short space of time. I’ll see a couple walking down the street together, laughing and seeming happy, and the thought will pop up in my mind, ‘Does he have a secret life that she doesn’t know about?’ I hate being this way. I like taking people at face value, and assuming the best. I really hope this is temporary.

FeeFee, what a lovely post. And I am so impressed by your strength in not doing the seeking for evidence thing. I am still so bad at that. It sounds to me like you have a really solid core of mental health. I know there are times when it probably doesn’t feel that way at all right now, but in my opinion, your common sense and mental strength is going to serve you extremely well during this upside-down time.

And I envy you living in England.. My mom was from England and my dad from Ireland, and I feel such a pull to be there. I’ve got books and calendars all over the place of thatched cottages. My little pipe dream. 🙂

Love, Annie xoxo

Heidi, My h is still RESENTFUL that I filed for divorce. After months of my begging him to get back into active recovery and, finally, the clear boundary of “Saying your’e sober is not enough. I won’t live with a sex addict who is not in recovery and making progress. If you don’t start going back to meetings and therapy, I’ll divorce you.” No could do. He refused. NOW he’s doing it all–on his own accord, because he realized he still has “anger issues” and “sobriety is not the same as recovery.” I guess he expected me to stop proceedings but I haven’t and won’t, though–as most of you know–we continue to live together. Lately, I’ve sunk deeper into depression and my medication isn’t as effective. He doesn’t understand why the divorce (he uses air quotes when he says it) is having such an impact on me. “You chose it,” he says. “I had no choice,” I say. He couldn’t see it. So last night, he and my 12-yr-old are going round and round again about her turtle, which is about the size of Loch Ness and keeps turning his filter over so it doesn’t do its job. The kiddo is supposed to right it every time, but she’s pretty oblivious until the whole downstairs smells like a sewer. So h tells her, once again, “If you don’t take care of the turtle the way you’re supposed to, I’m going to give him away,” and she rolls her eyes and goes to watch Cops or something, and I find my analogy: “So, you tell Lola you’re going to give the turtle away if she doesn’t keep his cage clean. You give her several chances, but she still doesn’t comply. One day, after she’s let the house reek like the county dump, she returns home to find the turtle gone. She cries, “How COULD you?!” She screams and yells that it’s all your fault. You took her turtle away. You remind her that she’d been warned and that she had plenty of chances to turn the situation around. Is it your fault or hers that she no longer has a turtle?

That he understood.

for me before my partner decided to admit to his sa. i could have understood what he had done. yes it was abuse do i believe it was a clear choice for him NO. do i know he knew it was wrong YES. my problem is since that point he has continued there is no way he didnt make that choice, he knew he had a addiction and he chose to use that addiction at the cost of everything. i look at it like the diabetic who knows they are and will sit down and eat a chocolate cake. then take it a step further and say i dont know why i did that, i feel so guilty. BS they have only them selves to blame. no one made them do it. it was only their need to fill, without any regard for the outcome. shame, guilt all of it is only another way to not hold responsibility for their actions. my partner made the choice to abuse me he knew the pain he knew my heart and he had no regard for any of it. he did not use his recovery nor any tools he had. there is no way i will ever believe at some point he didnt know what he was choosing. he himself told me he could have done it differently. but once he passed that point it was over.
bottom line is the choice

Hi Heidi,
The statement you made…if you stay and continue to tolerate bs you are codependent. That is a topic that i think we talked about very much on MTSA. And that is the “pattern” they talk about very much in carnes books.

I have read several books about co-dependency/co-addict. And here is what i think it means. A co-dependent may have had a tough upbringing and in doing so, may create the same chaos later in life, unbenouned to her. Its engrained, and sometimes i think its based on habit or history. However she is not willing to cover up, lie, play a part, continue to take continued abuse, beatings, verbal abuse etc. She realizes this is bad, i need to get out. And she does. You can have co-dependent tendencies, but not be fully co-dependent. I beleive there are certian personality types that are just caring and possibley gullibal (myself included), yes i will buy that bridge on booklyn. I beleived that everyone was good, and that no one would lie…

There is another creature that thrives on disaster, constant trauma, maybe she is unable to leave a terrible situation. Her Sa husband not only continues to act out, but she helps pay the bills for it to appease him. She covers it up, lies, and in some ways thrives on the merry go round as well. She continues to have disasterous relationship after another, and its never her fault. She is like a heat seeking missle to these situations. She not only does she not realize its bad, she does not leave. She is stuck. Often times these children are of alcholoics, or someother household with constant turmoil. She does not realize there is any other way, and in a way she feels like this is “home”. Its what she is used to. If the relationship is not a thrill or intoxicating emtions, she wants no part. TO be in a relationship with someone who is not “bad news” is boring. She also gets a sort of high. These types will have the knock down drag out fight, make up, and have the euphoric “love” after. We concurred all, only to repeat the process over and over. Its equally devestating.

They also like to say a co-dependent cannot feel her feelings, she cannot make choices for herself, she is very dependent on the spouse for all her feelings of belonging and well doing, she gets her sense of worth from others, she does too much for others, typically a martyr. She is so busy runnign around after her h, kids, work and needs, there is never a moment for herself.

She will often have health issues, be tired, exhasuted and worn out. She has trouble leaving a situation which is clearly bad for her. That is when i think we have an issue of co-dependence. She NEEDS him and LOVES him sooooo much she cannot leave him. If you cannot leave a situation which is bad for you because you LOVE your husband, this is maybe something to consider.

But when in this situation, just because you love him and care for him sooo much, it does not mean he feels the same for you. It is not words that we must listen to but the actions. It is a key to life, that none of us should ever forget. Every word that everyone speaks, including our h’s which we love, is not the truth. and the hardest thing i think to get past sometimes is that the person you love and adore above all else, would lie to you or do anything bad.

But these are my two cents on that topic. I think there are varying levels of co-dependence. And i think many people are afflicted. The difference comes in with how much and how long you tolerate. If you can see its an issue, you have completed the most important step. And i think anyone in a relationship with an addict must take a really hard look at herself and her past. Because as hard as it may be, we did play a part in this, and we made the choices to get in these relationships.

It is gods way of telling us, seomthing needs to change. I don’t know what that is, but its that aha moment that oprah speaks of. when something like this happens in your life, you need to wake up and take note. Because the cycle will continue to repeat itself, for ever and ever, until we acknowledge the pattern and break the cycle.

Love,
Flora

Thanks to everyone for there comments – really interesting reading everyone’s different take on having a SA as a partner.
I am pretty sure I will be separating/divorcing my SAH, although a part of me struggles with the thought of being divorced & the impact on my life & the kids, mainly I worry about the boys.
I do feel that either way (divorce or staying) is not a easy decision, the consequences are huge by going down either path. There is so much pain & suffering no matter which way you look at it. It takes a lot of courage either way.

Tanya